17 Dead in Montanta

[CitationCapt]

Spec

Shroom,

I agree. This is my last post on this subject and here's my take:

1) Ice- NO
2) Low on fuel- NO
3) Heart Attack- maybe. Could explain the diversion to Butte (BTM), but from the Salmon VOR is not close enough timewise compared to Gallatin (BZN) to be much of an advantage if he's feeling crummy.
4) Overloaded- NO
5) Out of AFT CG- maybe
6) Accelerated stall , then an incipient phase of a spin while doing a 180 to enter a right downwind- YES.

My apologies to NJAOwner. I know you mean well.

CC

 

[Fr8DoggyStyle]

I flew air medical PC-12's with Bud Summerfield almost 10 years ago. While I did not fly with him personally, he was a base manager and had a reputation for being a good stick, conservative and very knowledgeable. In an industry rampant with cowboys he was decidedly not a cowboy. He took a great deal of experience, wisdom and talent to the grave. The saddest part is the children who went with him.

May all on board RIP.

 

[shroomwell]

That's why I conclude it was a medical issue with the pilot. A pilot of his experience would not stall a PC-12 in VFR conditions.

 

[o2bflyn]

That's why I conclude it was a medical issue with the pilot. A pilot of his experience would not stall a PC-12 in VFR conditions.

that seems quite plausable.

Then why would he cancel his flight plan? Why not simply divert? maybe even declare an emergency.

I think that is the part that is throwing me off a little. My flat out cancel your flight plan if you plan on diverting. Just change destinations. Maybe my info on him cancelling is inaccurate.

 

[CaptSeth]

Perhaps a stroke.

 

[Balou]

Does any one know If there is a lav on board a Pc-12 ? I was just wondering if they had to make a "pit" stop. I guess even so if he was single pilot, he could not use it anyway. Im just wondering the reason for the early stop. Unless it was bad weather at Bozeman or a fuel stop, I would rather land at Bozeman any day rather than down that valley in Butte.

 

[imissvfr]

Just my two cents...
There needs to be more emphasis on the reason for the diverson. Pilot specifically asked for a "vfr airport" and gave no reason to want to go there.

Pilot missed 3 radio calls including the handoff to Butte, and never did talk to a Butte controller. The airplane was no where near the rwy center line, and way to high according to a pilot who watched the approach. Not something a 2000 hr PC12 pilot would be likely to do.

Pilot health issues would explain the request for vfr, no reason for diversion as this would raise flags and have authorities wondering why 14 people were on board when there were only seats for 10, and the unusual erratic approach.

A couple of other things said in previous posts....
The PC12 does not stall "slow" with no flaps. On speed AOA approach speed at 15 degrees (icing config) would be around 120. The stall speed I wouldn't know and hope I never find out below about 5000 agl as the stall characteristics are very nasty.

 

[CitationCapt]

Btm

FYI

There is no Butte controller. Back in the late 80's, the Butte FSS was closed, but prior to that the briefer there would only give you an advisory and state if there was any reported traffic.

This is an uncontrolled field. You are talking on a CTAF to other aircraft or possibly to someone at the FBO.

If you are on a IFR flight plan, Salt Lake Center loses radar contact with you somewhere below 11,000 feet. They ask you to report your downtime or cancellation with them or through Great Falls FSS. If you have a visual on the airport, they can clear you for a visual approach.

That is the reality of it for many places in the mountain west where radar coverage is lost before getting to the airport, or with an IFR departure where the center controller has no radar contact on you until you are at a minimum coverage altitude .

CC

 

[imissvfr]

I guess thats what I get for reading the paper, which had said he was "cleared to land" which as you very well know, Salt Lake can't do.

The point of my post was that everything done near the airport was no where close to what someone with his experience level would do.

Thanks for the IFR lesson though....

 

[CitationCapt]

I guess thats what I get for reading the paper, which had said he was "cleared to land" which as you very well know, Salt Lake can't do.

The point of my post was that everything done near the airport was no where close to what someone with his experience level would do.

Thanks for the IFR lesson though....

Hopefully with 5,000 hours and time in 2 turbine aircraft, you already knew about IFR operations into uncontrolled field with no radar coverage, right?

CC

 

[imissvfr]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get snippy.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200990329005

A good friend of mine landed this aztec off of a circling approach in -1/4 mile viz with an engine shutdown yesterday. He's feeling pretty lucky to be alive right now. A week to the day after the PC-12 accident at the same field.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200990329005

A good friend of mine landed this aztec off of a circling approach in -1/4 mile viz with an engine shutdown yesterday. He's feeling pretty lucky to be alive right now. A week to the day after the PC-12 accident at the same field.

Yikes. Sounds really hairy. Glad he is ok!

 

[IFLYHI]

o2bflyn, i think there is a healthy level of speculation that goes on among professionals, we are at risk of making the same mistakes, or possibly being the victom of outside forces, so we have a lot more on the line than do the media, or your dentist, or anyone else who asks. I am not immune to it. I do find it entertaining to see that as soon as there is an accident/incident, everyone has it solved without any data.

I know a lot of my early theories have been blown out of the water. I do think that there will be a cause found, I just hope it doesn't do more damage to our industry than is justified at an already precarious time to be an aviator.

For example, if there is a big push for CVRs in smaller aircraft. Little or no benefit if there is not an accident, but huge expense for all the King Airs, Pilatuses (not sure the multiple), etc. Not saying they're not a great idea, just who needs more expence in this environment.

How about Pilatii???

BTW, should this thread be moved from the Charter Forum? I have seen nothing that indicates this was a charter flight (legal or illegal). Does it fit better in the Corporate Forum? Not a big deal, but people could assume it was a charter based on where it is posted.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Pedantic Alert

BTW, should this thread be moved from the Charter Forum? I have seen nothing that indicates this was a charter flight (legal or illegal). Does it fit better in the Corporate Forum? Not a big deal, but people could assume it was a charter based on where it is posted.

Are your panties neatly packed and separated by color in your draw too?