135 Scabs

[FlierDude]

This person certainly would not donate a portion of his salary to the major he worked for to upgrade to 747-400, so why should he donate his money to individuals that can afford a multi-million dollar aircraft just so he does not feel as though he was put out to pasture?

Very well said! And for all those 'free-marketeers', it's a free country here (USA), and we can single out whoever we like for doing a disservice to his peers. If he doesn't need the salary that bad, go volunteer your time at a hospital, teach at a flight school or college, etc.. Just don't undercut the pay standards for those of us who are trying to make a living.

 

[XTW]

HawkerJet,
The pilots you are describing are not scabs.This industry and Alpo is in a spin and I don't see the working conditions or pay to get better any time soon. If you wonder what a real scab looks and acts like then look for your nearest member of APA !

Forest Man,

What is your personal debt interest in French beer? It's about time to pay it down. Where do I collect? FLL?

X

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Like I said before, if a person can afford and airplane he can afford to train pilots. I could really care less about 135 ect. You need pilots, train them. No free handouts. Congress can take care of that. Not professional pilots.

OK, 100, I'm with you most of the way, but this statement deserves some looking into.

How far does this go? If I can afford a jet, should I type rate the pilots? What if they have no jet time, should I get them the experience? What if they don't have an ATP, or enough total turbine to meet the insurance, should I provide that too? What defines a professional pilot? Is it a 1500 hour guy with a fresh ATP? Is it a guy with 10000 hours in jets, but not rated in the one that I own? Should I not lean toward hiring the guy that has 1000 hours and a type rating in the plane that I own?

What exactly does the owner owe to the 'professional pilot'? Why WOULDN'T he look for someone with a type rating and years of experience. I've seen posts on this board where pilots are actually mad when someone advertises a job and asks for a type or time in type. Heck, I'm a better Gulfstream pilot now than when I first got typed in it. Shouldn't an owner look for the best, safest pilot? Isn't total time and time in type part of that?

Now, answer every question

Ace

 

[hoover]

So now people are scabs because they have a different idea of the value of their work and skills than you? Who's to say they are underpaid? Isn't it just possible that you are overpaid rather than they being underpaid?

 

[Mach8Forest]

XTW
The past debt and interest is hard to calculate on the beers in Paris. The currency conversion (EURO) is the reason for this. FLL is the best place to try to calculate this and may require the introduction of an american beer into the equation.
Mach8Forest

 

[G100driver]

OK, 100, I'm with you most of the way, but this statement deserves some looking into.

How far does this go? If I can afford a jet, should I type rate the pilots? What if they have no jet time, should I get them the experience? What if they don't have an ATP, or enough total turbine to meet the insurance, should I provide that too? What defines a professional pilot? Is it a 1500 hour guy with a fresh ATP? Is it a guy with 10000 hours in jets, but not rated in the one that I own? Should I not lean toward hiring the guy that has 1000 hours and a type rating in the plane that I own?

What exactly does the owner owe to the 'professional pilot'? Why WOULDN'T he look for someone with a type rating and years of experience. I've seen posts on this board where pilots are actually mad when someone advertises a job and asks for a type or time in type. Heck, I'm a better Gulfstream pilot now than when I first got typed in it. Shouldn't an owner look for the best, safest pilot? Isn't total time and time in type part of that?

Now, answer every question

Ace

Ace:

No problem here with the senerio's you are discussing. I just have a problem with guys giving hand-out to people who do not "need" them.

I am can deal with reality a little bit ... I am not completly living in my own personal utopia.

 

[hawkerjet]

OK, There seems to be a lot more interest in this matter than I originally thought.
First of all, this was never intended to be a military bashing post
Next, I am aware of this countries' capatalistic marketplace.


What I am venting about is professional pilots coming in to my workplace and offering to work for less money than we are paying similar pilots doing the same job. PERIOD. I wanted to see if this existed elsewhere, and evidently it does.

I'll briefly explain my position. I have observed this happening several times in my career ( 14 years 135 & 91 flight)with each result having negative effects. I have noticed resentment within the pilot ranks which I noticed caused a rift. Pilots normally very willing to switch trips now were not doing so. Pilot's animosity grew as positions in larger equipment ( which usually translates into a raise for the guy getting into the bigger equipment) were given to the guys working for cheap.
One common thread I noticed was that there was no real management structure within the company. Mom & Pop operations if you will.
So when I got to a new company that had an established management structure to which I was involved, I decided to act.
I DO NOT LIKE PILOTS COMING IN AND WORKING FOR CHEAP! I think it is disruptive, divisive and has a negative impact overall on the company.
Do I feel that someone has the right to come in and offer to work for cheap, abso fuc---- lutely. This is America. But since this is America, I am also exercising my right to speak up about it, and I am.
I am not on a crusade to change the 135 industry, "but just trying to look for a solution from others on this board who may think like myself on the matter." I have spoken to the owner and the DO about my beliefs and at first they said I was meddling, then after we sat down and discussed it further, decided it was something to pursue. If you disagree with me, then thats fine too.
There were many analogies used to compare different situations but since 135 rules don't apply to salary or compensation, we're all on our own. I am drawing Information from Pro Pilot, NBAA, and Salaries.com.

I started this thread looking for others that share my feelings and I have found that many do. Thanks again to all who participated.

 

[G100driver]

Hawkerjet:

Thank you. This is America and people are free to do what they want and I appreciate that you are out doing the right thing. Keep up the good work and keep on meddling.

:beer:

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I am can deal with reality a little bit

I want some of what he's having

The fact of the matter is that both sides have the absolute right. One side can employ or be employed for whatever they want, the other side has free speech and can say whatever they want about about any group of pilots. God bless America.

But I must say, those of us that have gotten a great job in this 'horrible' time for pilots, don't seem to be calling 'sour grapes'. I'm damn good at what I do, I have a good attitude, and people have hired me and payed my wage. Pretty simple. Good pilot + good attitude = good pay and good job.

Ace

 

[G100driver]

I
But I must say, those of us that have gotten a great job in this 'horrible' time for pilots, don't seem to be calling 'sour grapes'. I'm dang good at what I do, I have a good attitude, and people have hired me and payed my wage. Pretty simple. Good pilot + good attitude = good pay and good job.

Ace

BINGO we have a winner!!!!! I got my current gig (EXCELLENT GIG) in the the worst of the down market. I am not calling sour-grapes, just looking out for everyone. I know that at sometime in my career I will be on the other side of the fence looking in.... (unfortunately we all will be).