10/250

[dime line]

Mean while back in CGF........good lord you NJA guys really really need to get over yourselves......do you have any idea how you guys sound? im hope you get your 10/250k.....but goodness you make yourselves look like a bunch of pricks.

Hu????? Where do I sign up to be a prick, for 250k

 

[BentOver]

If enough pilots in this union are willing to make it happen and put the company in a position to either make us happy or shut it down, they would be quite foolish to kill the company just because they aren't willing to share the spoils. I'm just not sure we have enough guys and girls who are willing to push it.

With 60%+ making in the mid six figures, not likely.... I know there is some legacy hiring going on, but I doubt there are enough guys to play roulette without a guaranteed backup job...

Sounds nice on a web board and in TEB, " max pay til the last day.." But realistically???

Still the question, what will be the give and take items?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Sounds like the same arguments critics made 10 years ago... Before record profits.

Give and take?

Sounds like enough pilots could leave and many are well over 65 currently with shuffleboard set as there destination (or should). Absent a reason to stay financially, would you?

I make what F/Os make at many airlines today after 8 years of the first CBA and after the 2007 "bump".

"Give and take" comes from a relative position of bargaining strength possessed by both sides.

Today, I think it's a question of retaining labor in the face of a shortage brought on by many factors. 2500TT is a white whale now. Good luck is what I'd tell the company negotiators... And recruiters.


The schedule won't be supported with a pilot exodous... or even a slow creep out the door (which has begun)... and with scope as it is, even with a recall tomorrow, the supplemental lift will absolutely slaughter profits.


If I were CEO, I'd want this contract done fast do as to settle the F/A CBA ASAP as well. Move focus back to the Owners... Where it belongs.

If this is a summer camp job, pilots will not stay. If this is a career destination, that costs money. But so does hiring pilots and lost efficiencies due to "newbies" learning the ropes.

Numbers. Only the tip of the iceberg really.

 

[gunfyter]

Quickly?

I think this is another 5 year mission like our last Star trek adventure.

 

[X-rated]

How can anyone even suggest there is a pilot shortage when their own company has 495 pilots on furlough? A pilot shortage may well be coming, but it is certainly not here yet.

If you want to cash in, don't vote for a long term contract. This is simply not yet the environment required to justify a 110 percent increase. Then again, maybe that's the real reason for asking for something you know you can't possibly get. Drag this thing out for years and hope of the economy and aviation jobs market improve. If that's the goal, wouldn't signing a short term contract with a smaller more reasonable increase be preferable to a long nasty siht fight where everyone loses?

I can't believe how nasty this thread has gotten especially since the pretense is so ridiculous. 10/250 is just negotiating theater. The answer is C, and deep down, everyone knows it.

Before you crush the messenger, maybe someone can answer a question I haven't yet seen addressed? Since every captain has or soon will have 10 year seniority, what are 10/250 supporters trying to get for the FO's? I would think those are the guys most likely to make the jump to the majors.

 

[BushwickBill]

How can anyone even suggest there is a pilot shortage when their own company has 495 pilots on furlough? A pilot shortage may well be coming, but it is certainly not here yet.

If you want to cash in, don't vote for a long term contract. This is simply not yet the environment required to justify a 110 percent increase. Then again, maybe that's the real reason for asking for something you know you can't possibly get. Drag this thing out for years and hope of the economy and aviation jobs market improve. If that's the goal, wouldn't signing a short term contract with a smaller more reasonable increase be preferable to a long nasty siht fight where everyone loses?

I can't believe how nasty this thread has gotten especially since the pretense is so ridiculous. 10/250 is just negotiating theater. The answer is C, and deep down, everyone knows it.

Before you crush the messenger, maybe someone can answer a question I haven't yet seen addressed? Since every captain has or soon will have 10 year seniority, what are 10/250 supporters trying to get for the FO's? I would think those are the guys most likely to make the jump to the majors.

It would be neat if you spent more time worrying about the welfare of the FOs at your place of employment.

Why even mention a pilot shortage that we know will never happen in the 91 or 135 world? All mostly because of one factor, no mandatory retirement age. The flood of retiring airline pilots will come to low rate second tier operations and upgrade out of seniority and mercilessly brow beat their copilots into submission over the way it was done at "my airline". All for beer money.

The behavior of these pilots is summarized perfectly by one of my favorite artists and arguable prophets, Peter Tosh:

http://youtu.be/mpSLiJlkUSs

I applaud the Netjets pilots for attempting to raise the bar. Keep going. Thank you. This glimmer of hope of some kind of change in the race to the bottom behavior infecting the entire industry has not gone unnoticed. I don't think you guys are greedy, you are the only sane pilots at the table. I am personally trying to leave aviation because of the shameful behavior of most pilots. Refusing to retire, offering to pay for type ratings or work for free or simply less than I have asked has been a constant theme during the last ten years. This is the only example I can remember of pilots actually trying to improve things.

I just got a rejection letter from the county police department for becoming a dispatcher. A solar company is hiring and I will send off another resume, one of dozens sent in the last month alone. Just when it couldn't seem to get any worse the Netjets guys ask for more in the face of adversity. I hope I am out of this industry soon but it is nice to see an example of guys attempting to do the right thing. I never thought I would.

 

[BlueNose]

Sounds like the same arguments critics made 10 years ago... Before record profits.

Give and take?

Sounds like enough pilots could leave and many are well over 65 currently with shuffleboard set as there destination (or should). Absent a reason to stay financially, would you?

I make what F/Os make at many airlines today after 8 years of the first CBA and after the 2007 "bump".

"Give and take" comes from a relative position of bargaining strength possessed by both sides.

Today, I think it's a question of retaining labor in the face of a shortage brought on by many factors. 2500TT is a white whale now. Good luck is what I'd tell the company negotiators... And recruiters.


The schedule won't be supported with a pilot exodous... or even a slow creep out the door (which has begun)... and with scope as it is, even with a recall tomorrow, the supplemental lift will absolutely slaughter profits.


If I were CEO, I'd want this contract done fast do as to settle the F/A CBA ASAP as well. Move focus back to the Owners... Where it belongs.

If this is a summer camp job, pilots will not stay. If this is a career destination, that costs money. But so does hiring pilots and lost efficiencies due to "newbies" learning the ropes.

Numbers. Only the tip of the iceberg really.

As you said, numbers. The number that each side can live with will be the final answer, influenced by market factors and the willpower of the players to make the other side blink.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help your pilots' position that their fellows at the next biggest player agreed to the Comair contract of the fractional industry, working the same job at a 25% discount, and for probably another two years at least. And if the mega-merger rumors are at all true, one or both of the other big four could be folded in very soon, and what wage scale do you think they'll be offered? You can be sure the guys across the table will point to the threat from Krazy Kenny's Used Airplanes and his lower labor costs.

Good luck

 

[gunfyter]

X-rated

10 /150 for FO's

Why not take a smaller raise now? My understanding is that Concessions are what is offered now.... I may not be right about that though.

 

[t-bone]

It would be neat if you spent more time worrying about the welfare of the FOs at your place of employment.

It would be neater if you knew what you were talking about. X-Rated hasn't worked here for quite a long time now.

Stop blaming everyone else for where you find yourself in life. If everything seems to be working against you, maybe it's time for some self-reflection.

Telling your coworkers to "GFY" isn't going to make things any easier...

I thought you were going to take the buyout money...what happened there?

 

[fischman]

X-rated

10 /150 for FO's

Why not take a smaller raise now? My understanding is that Concessions are what is offered now.... I may not be right about that though.

I feel our 10 year FO's are worth no less than $180,000