Alpa at Flex?

[el raton]

Would Alpa be a better choice than the IBT? I've heard they're showing interest.

 

[exagony]

------

 

[dime line]

Would Alpa be a better choice than the IBT? I've heard they're showing interest.

Sure they are, what a wonderful job they have done at the regionals, just what we want

 

[Propilot77]

Would Alpa be a better choice than the IBT? I've heard they're showing interest.

Hahahahahahahahaaha!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

ALPA is no better. Been there, done that.

 

[Praetorian]

Would Alpa be a better choice than the IBT? I've heard they're showing interest.

It seems everyone goes through the "ALPA" stage during the early days of an organizing campaign in the Frac industry.

Fact is they've never been interested in representing anything other than 121 pilots and they've never done a very good job of representing the pilots at the regionals. It's a dollars and cents thing. We'd be a fly spec in their overall picture.

 

[doh]

We have the same contact number Travel Management had. He didn't return their calls and he's not returning ours. Pretty much says it all.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Here are some facts and thoughts:

• Both, Flexjet and Netjets, are on ALPA's radar. How do I know this? Because I've talked to the head organizer for ALPA along with some other Flexjet pilots.

• We all know that unions are about dues. Here's some math: In a prior life at an ALPA represented regional, we had roughly 1,700 pilots. Average salary probably around $60,000ish X 1,700 X 2% = $2,000,000. Average salary at Flex, maybe $125,000ish X 400+ (by year's end) X 2% = $1,000,000. Factor in Netjets who make more than Flex pilots but for the sake of argument use $125,000 again and there's another $7,500,000 based on 3,000 pilots. Why on earth wouldn't they want to tap into that? When brought to the organizers attention, he seemed seemed a bit intrigued at those numbers.

• A major complaint I had with ALPA was that they had too many irons in the fire. They couldn't fairly represent all of their competing interests. I.e. ASA, Comair, and Delta. They couldn't represent one group without another losing out. If the 1108 tries to represent Flexjet and FLOPs, not only are we going to be upset with each other but also with the 1108 because ultimately there will be losers at both places.

• It's been said that the 1108 has the knowledge, experience, and "goods" on Ricci. Probably all true. But that doesn't mean that ALPA can't be educated. FLOPs pilots have been trying to educate us for nearly 18 months now so why couldn't ALPA learn also?

In the end, it may all be for nothing trying to push the ALPA angle. I have my own personal reasons for not wanting to be a Teamster but in the end may reluctantly reside to the fact that it's my only option. I really want nothing to do with either group but realize that there needs to be a document signed by both sides going forward.

Flame away!

 

[993_Pilot]

I have no desire to flame. We can always revisit the idea of who would better represent the pilot group at a later point in time, but the bottom line is that we all need to be represented and (almost as important) be united against One Sky/DAC, because you can rest assured that they are 100% united against us.

 

[Praetorian]

Here are some facts and thoughts:

? Both, Flexjet and Netjets, are on ALPA's radar. How do I know this? Because I've talked to the head organizer for ALPA along with some other Flexjet pilots.

? We all know that unions are about dues. Here's some math: In a prior life at an ALPA represented regional, we had roughly 1,700 pilots. Average salary probably around $60,000ish X 1,700 X 2% = $2,000,000. Average salary at Flex, maybe $125,000ish X 400+ (by year's end) X 2% = $1,000,000. Factor in Netjets who make more than Flex pilots but for the sake of argument use $125,000 again and there's another $7,500,000 based on 3,000 pilots. Why on earth wouldn't they want to tap into that? When brought to the organizers attention, he seemed seemed a bit intrigued at those numbers.

? A major complaint I had with ALPA was that they had too many irons in the fire. They couldn't fairly represent all of their competing interests. I.e. ASA, Comair, and Delta. They couldn't represent one group without another losing out. If the 1108 tries to represent Flexjet and FLOPs, not only are we going to be upset with each other but also with the 1108 because ultimately there will be losers at both places.

? It's been said that the 1108 has the knowledge, experience, and "goods" on Ricci. Probably all true. But that doesn't mean that ALPA can't be educated. FLOPs pilots have been trying to educate us for nearly 18 months now so why couldn't ALPA learn also?

In the end, it may all be for nothing trying to push the ALPA angle. I have my own personal reasons for not wanting to be a Teamster but in the end may reluctantly reside to the fact that it's my only option. I really want nothing to do with either group but realize that there needs to be a document signed by both sides going forward.

Flame away!

I think you need to be honest with yourself. Isn't it true that the only reason you're lobbying for ALPA is that you like the name "Airline pilots association", better then you like the name "Teamsters"?

As for your numbers. Even with the higher salaries we would still only have a combined group of under a thousand pilots. So compare our numbers to those of one of the legacy carriers, remember that in the ALPA system 70% of our dues would go to ALPA national (22% with IBT) and tell me you really - really really - believe ALPA would do anything for us other then collect our dues.

 

[Propilot77]

Here are some facts and thoughts:

? Both, Flexjet and Netjets, are on ALPA's radar. How do I know this? Because I've talked to the head organizer for ALPA along with some other Flexjet pilots.

? We all know that unions are about dues. Here's some math: In a prior life at an ALPA represented regional, we had roughly 1,700 pilots. Average salary probably around $60,000ish X 1,700 X 2% = $2,000,000. Average salary at Flex, maybe $125,000ish X 400+ (by year's end) X 2% = $1,000,000. Factor in Netjets who make more than Flex pilots but for the sake of argument use $125,000 again and there's another $7,500,000 based on 3,000 pilots. Why on earth wouldn't they want to tap into that? When brought to the organizers attention, he seemed seemed a bit intrigued at those numbers.

? A major complaint I had with ALPA was that they had too many irons in the fire. They couldn't fairly represent all of their competing interests. I.e. ASA, Comair, and Delta. They couldn't represent one group without another losing out. If the 1108 tries to represent Flexjet and FLOPs, not only are we going to be upset with each other but also with the 1108 because ultimately there will be losers at both places.

? It's been said that the 1108 has the knowledge, experience, and "goods" on Ricci. Probably all true. But that doesn't mean that ALPA can't be educated. FLOPs pilots have been trying to educate us for nearly 18 months now so why couldn't ALPA learn also?

In the end, it may all be for nothing trying to push the ALPA angle. I have my own personal reasons for not wanting to be a Teamster but in the end may reluctantly reside to the fact that it's my only option. I really want nothing to do with either group but realize that there needs to be a document signed by both sides going forward.

Flame away!

Many people have contacted ALPA. Now tell me how long ago they were contacted and why does it take so long to receive their answer? It's just a ruse. It shouldnt be taking this long to see if they are interested. If they truly did have interest it would have happened by now. Not flaming just have come to terms that the Teamsters really are the only game and if not then I will admit I was wrong.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I think you need to be honest with yourself. Isn't it true that the only reason you're lobbying for ALPA is that you like the name "Airline pilots association", better then you like the name "Teamsters"?

As for your numbers. Even with the higher salaries we would still only have a combined group of under a thousand pilots. So compare our numbers to those of one of the legacy carriers, remember that in the ALPA system 70% of our dues would go to ALPA national (22% with IBT) and tell me you really - really really - believe ALPA would do anything for us other then collect our dues.

It has nothing to do with having the word "airline" attached to the title. I left the the airlines on my own free will. You and FR8DAWG777 desperately want to label me as some spikey hair, iPod toting, Mesa RJ pilot. I try to make some serious points and your first response to that is sophmor-onic. As far as the numbers go, who cares if they represent 400 or thousands? If that's the case, then why did they agree to represent the North American pilots a few years back with their 200 or so pilots making less than us? I believe ALPA has a whole would give a crap about us as much as Teamsters as a whole would.

Many people have contacted ALPA. Now tell me how long ago they were contacted and why does it take so long to receive their answer? It's just a ruse. It shouldnt be taking this long to see if they are interested. If they truly did have interest it would have happened by now. Not flaming just have come to terms that the Teamsters really are the only game and if not then I will admit I was wrong.

I should've included this point in my original post but part of the delay for now is that they are working to confirm that 91k and 135 operators would for sure be covered under the RLA. They're confident that we would be but just crossing their T's and dotting their I's.

Like I originally said, this very well may fall flat and go no where. I'm just relaying information that I have been able to obtain.

 

[Propilot77]

It has nothing to do with having the word "airline" attached to the title. I left the the airlines on my own free will. You and FR8DAWG777 desperately want to label me as some spikey hair, iPod toting, Mesa RJ pilot. I try to make some serious points and your first response to that is sophmor-onic. As far as the numbers go, who cares if they represent 400 or thousands? If that's the case, then why did they agree to represent the North American pilots a few years back with their 200 or so pilots making less than us? I believe ALPA has a whole would give a crap about us as much as Teamsters as a whole would.



I should've included this point in my original post but part of the delay for now is that they are working to confirm that 91k and 135 operators would for sure be covered under the RLA. They're confident that we would be but just crossing their T's and dotting their I's.

Like I originally said, this very well may fall flat and go no where. I'm just relaying information that I have been able to obtain.

It's also going to be hard for them to sell to the 121 carriers that their dues now support 135 operators. I shouldn't take almost 2 months to find out if we're under the RLA. Just my .02

 

[V1 Rotate]

It's also going to be hard for them to sell to the 121 carriers that their dues now support 135 operators. I shouldn't take almost 2 months to find out if we're under the RLA. Just my .02

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? But what if they say yes? What would you say then? I'm willing to admit that I'd join Teamsters if ALPA says no. Also, why are the Teamsters allowed to represent 121 and 135?

 

[The Architect]

Carrier

I should've included this point in my original post but part of the delay for now is that they are working to confirm that 91k and 135 operators would for sure be covered under the RLA. They're confident that we would be but just crossing their T's and dotting their I's.

The fact that "they are working to confirm that 91k and 135 operators" are covered by the RLA should tell you that they don't know what the hell they are doing.

Yes - the pilots at Flexjet meet the requirements of a covered "carrier."