Flexjet Union

[exagony]

I heard in FBO yesterday a few Flex pilots discussing that a union drive may be underway very soon. Can any Flex pilots comment on if true and why?

 

[slowtation capt]

Oh boy, can't wait for what TWA says about this post.

 

[warlord19]

I heard in an FBO that FLOPS is for sale..anyone heard any more on that?
WL

 

[slowtation capt]

Isn't everyone, if the offer is right.

 

[doh]

We kinda found that out...

 

[doh]

Having said that, you are premature. There is a growing concern that upgrades may occur out of seniority order. I have heard some unhappy rumblings along those lines, but nothing approaching a card drive at this point.

 

[japhy]

I foresee a union drive at Flexjet if one pilot is upgraded out of seniority order, and it would have a good shot at being successful.

 

[SDCFI]

There won't be a union at Flex until the company starts taking from the senior folks. This dedicated crewing business and potential for FO pilots to end up in the 350 only really affects the junior fos. Now you take away the 401k match or jack up health care premiums and they might start to care. Or you start bringing FO pilots into something a bit too close to home like the new Gs. I'm sure there are some stand up senior guys in the CL fleets, I'm in the Lear so I don't know many people outside my fleet. But in both fleets there are far too many "I got mine" or "this is a great job while I ride out my last few years before retirement" people hanging around.

 

[luckydog]

. I'm sure there are some stand up senior guys in the CL fleets, I'm in the Lear so I don't know many people outside my fleet. But in both fleets there are far too many "I got mine" or "this is a great job while I ride out my last few years before retirement" people hanging around.

You are misinformed sir. In the senior ranks there are few of the type you mentioned, and a few that are just oblivious to the changes going on around them. Most of the people I talk to are watching to see how this plays out. Take a look at the ages of the senior pilots, we have very few over age 65 pilots. They're aren't many guys killing time waiting on retirement, most have 10 or 15 years until Social Security is even an option.

As to what a 'stand up' senior guy would is, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
The 'I got mine' thing is just a downside of a seniority based system. If you'd been here sooner, 'you would have yours too'. It sucks. The alternative is we call all re-inverview for our jobs trying to get a G ride or to be on a dedicated crew. That sucks worse.

 

[Praetorian]

What I don't get is why you guys don't understand that what you're describing has already happened with the Globals.

How is it that if Gulfstreems or 350s and crewed out of seniority, or by Flight Options pilots a union drive would begin immediately, but when the same thing happens with the Globals you guys just shrug and go about your business?

Don't you understand that management watched how you reacted to how they've crewed the Globals and now believe they can get away with it again?

Before Kenn's mouthpiece TWA chimes in... Get it through your heads, the Globals are on your certificate and Flight Options pilots are flying them.

If they bring in the Gulfstreems and 350s, put them on your certificate, staff them out our seniority, but call it a different company will that be OK with you?

The longer you guys keep trying to convince yourselves everything is going to be OK as long as you do nothing, the harder it will be to fix the problem when you finally wake up to reality. You guys should be beating down the unions door asking to organize right now.

Do you think you will just wait until things get really bad and organize then? Let me clue you in, things will not get really bad until after the 1108 is out of the picture. After that your screwed if you wanna organize. Why? Because there is know one else to turn to. ALPA doesn't represent pilots who fly corporate aircraft. NJASAP in a one carrier only union, so they can't do it.

Thinking in-house? Any in-house that got voted in at FO/FX would fail in six months for lack of resources. You think the Teamsters will take you back if you end up being responsible for their desertification here?

The time is now guys, or there may never be another time to prevent the world that exists now only in one man's little green book from coming to fruition. I can assure you that in that world only those pilots who demonstrate a willingness to bend at the knee on cue will be flying Globals, Gulfstreems and 350s.

 

[luckydog]

It's a shame your only answer to every single issue is the IBT.

The Globals, weren't on the property before DAC, and I don't think they're even owned by FJ.

The 450s and 350s aren't here yet so the dedicated crew/FLOPs takeaways haven't even happened.

I have said all along that there are 2 ways to get the FJ pilots to even think about organizing with the IBT.

1. Earn it by showing show how our careers & lives would be enhanced by joining. That means an integration plan other than the loud mouth Flight Info voices shouting Date-Of-Hire! It also means a contract that increases our pay and benefits, not one that uses FJ pay as leverage to increase FLOPs pay.

-or-

2. Let KR recruit for the IBT by slowly dismantling our work rules and QOL protections.

If you can't/won't take the #1 option, then just be patient and KR do all the work for you.

His timeline doesn't seem to be quick enough for you though so the answer to every problem is the same. The more you push, the more FJ pilots push back.

 

[G4dude]

What I don't get is why you guys don't understand that what you're describing has already happened with the Globals.

How is it that if Gulfstreems or 350s and crewed out of seniority, or by Flight Options pilots a union drive would begin immediately, but when the same thing happens with the Globals you guys just shrug and go about your business?

Don't you understand that management watched how you reacted to how they've crewed the Globals and now believe they can get away with it again?

Before Kenn's mouthpiece TWA chimes in... Get it through your heads, the Globals are on your certificate and Flight Options pilots are flying them.



If they bring in the Gulfstreems and 350s, put them on your certificate, staff them out our seniority, but call it a different company will that be OK with you?

The longer you guys keep trying to convince yourselves everything is going to be OK as long as you do nothing, the harder it will be to fix the problem when you finally wake up to reality. You guys should be beating down the unions door asking to organize right now.

Do you think you will just wait until things get really bad and organize then? Let me clue you in, things will not get really bad until after the 1108 is out of the picture. After that your screwed if you wanna organize. Why? Because there is know one else to turn to. ALPA doesn't represent pilots who fly corporate aircraft. NJASAP in a one carrier only union, so they can't do it.

Thinking in-house? Any in-house that got voted in at FO/FX would fail in six months for lack of resources. You think the Teamsters will take you back if you end up being responsible for their desertification here?

The time is now guys, or there may never be another time to prevent the world that exists now only in one man's little green book from coming to fruition. I can assure you that in that world only those pilots who demonstrate a willingness to bend at the knee on cue will be flying Globals, Gulfstreems and 350s.

The IBT worked out badly for NJA. Same will happen at FLEX/FO, in my opinion. If you want a union, go in house.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

It's a shame your only answer to every single issue is the IBT.


I have said all along that there are 2 ways to get the FJ pilots to even think about organizing with the IBT.

1. Earn it by showing show how our careers & lives would be enhanced by joining. That means an integration plan other than the loud mouth Flight Info voices shouting Date-Of-Hire! It also means a contract that increases our pay and benefits, not one that uses FJ pay as leverage to increase FLOPs pay.

-or-

2. Let KR recruit for the IBT by slowly dismantling our work rules and QOL protections.

If you can't/won't take the #1 option, then just be patient and KR do all the work for you.

False arguement Lucky. Its up to the Flex pilots to make their careers & lives better. The FLOPS pilots did. The FLOPS pilots will be getting a raise this time around. Might not be as much as a Flex pilot, but we had to trade pay for work rules in a binding contract. Something you will have to earn.

 

[luckydog]

False arguement Lucky. Its up to the Flex pilots to make their careers & lives better. The FLOPS pilots did. The FLOPS pilots will be getting a raise this time around. Might not be as much as a Flex pilot, but we had to trade pay for work rules in a binding contract. Something you will have to earn.

We agree, it's up to the FJ pilots to make our own way. Our answer so far that doesn't include the IBT. Unfortunately you can't seem to accept it and continually promote the union as the only correct answer.

I can't remember seeing any FJ pilots here telling you to decertify at FLOPs, we accept your choice.

Good luck with the contract, I hope you guys do well.

 

[ghostrider64]

Ask yourselves why it is you aren't union, when the majority of aviation companies are... But hey, if you feel you can get a better deal going it alone, without any representation, good luck.

 

[el raton]

I never thought I would say this, but here goes...

The stock nazis in the 45 have taken their positions as dedicated crews on the 350s.They will bend over backwards to make this new program work. In the end they will be successful and we'll all be forced into dedicated crews. KR will love them because they brought his vision of dedicated crews to fruition. He'll look at them as People who can carry out his plans and call them his innovators. In reality they're your typical suck up! theyvhave screwed us!


The days of seniority based pay, upgrades, and schedules will be destroyed because of them. Instead, you will be judged soley on your performance and willingness to go above and beyond anything we do now. In aviation that can be dangerous.

I guess it's time to make a decision. Either you join the dedicated crew, suck it up and say goodbye to a nice job. Flexjet

Next,
anybody have any ideas?

 

[DirtyBeech]

That's a laughable post full of major reaches and backhanded compliments. You'd be a lot less worried about the whole deal if you had spent the same amount of time asking mgt. about the program as writing that post. You probably even think that the "stock nazis" are the first group in line to get a tail. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[luckydog]

The fact that anyone is in line shows the true ignorance of the situation.

 

[Pacific]

Sorry Beach, no matter how hard you try and convince yourself otherwise, you are in the wrong on this one. The self-centeredness this has brought out in people amazes me.

 

[Pacific]

Guess it'll just be the knobs left on the 45, right Beech?