Flexjet Union

[DirtyBeech]

And here you flat out told me that you don't blame FJ pilots for taking this. Which is the common private refrain of the most vocal critics. So are you lying to me when we speak? Have you bothered to ask who gets these tails if no one volunteers? Or do you still believe that they'll just go to the line?

 

[Pacific]

You seem to know the most about it; have you asked what will happen if no one takes them? Probably doesn't fit into your agenda. I don't blame you for being enticed, but at some point I expected you to see the light.

 

[DirtyBeech]

I straight up called the DO yesterday and asked that very question.

Maybe you should do the same. It might clarify things for you. Or you could return a phone call.

 

[Pacific]

The only way we'll know for sure, is if no one volunteers. I see what's happening, all too clearly, by the way.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Well, that's to be expected. Whole lot of pissed offedness, no real details released on the program yet, just speculation, and a complete unwillingness to ask questions on the part of the PO'd group short of the show thread on yammer.

 

[Pacific]

I did ask, and was told that if no one volunteered they would in fact go to the regular fleet.
Now what?

 

[DirtyBeech]

That wasn't the word as of yesterday.

 

[Pacific]

Maybe that wasn't the question you asked?

 

[DirtyBeech]

My exact question was would those tails go to the line if no one from FJ volunteered. The answer was definitively no.

 

[luckydog]

My exact question was would those tails go to the line if no one from FJ volunteered. The answer was definitively no.

If that's the case then so be it. If they want to assign the new 350s out of seniority order, make them do it. Don't volunteer to be the guy that showed mgmt that the pilot group doesn't care about seniority. If Kenn wants the 350 at FJ, they'll be flown from the same list as the 300. If he want's them flown by FLOPs, they'll still be assigned in seniority order.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Or they'll be given to new hires off the street. Pretty easy to sit there and tell guys to watch transfers or new hires take 350 slots while they work on year 8-10 in the right seat.

 

[Pacific]

Unless we FJ pilots unanimously reject this program it will probably happen. By you so eagerly facilitating this program you have chosen to step on a lot of toes and made it much more difficult for the correct message to be sent. Everyone has done their time, you are not special.

 

[luckydog]

Or they'll be given to new hires off the street. Pretty easy to sit there and tell guys to watch transfers or new hires take 350 slots while they work on year 8-10 in the right seat.

WHAT the F makes you think any of this is EASY?

And don't try to use your right seat time for sympathy, no one cares. Everyone has a hard luck story, you're not special. This is a tough industry that is very unforgiving. It's a shame that everyone isn't #1 on the seniority list but it doesn't work that way.

And since you don't seem to be able to see past the shiny new jet, let me remind you that just as soon as you knife someone in the back to get your seat, you better start looking over you shoulder because sure as s**t some new hire off the street will be there to do it to you. Once this gets started, there's no going back.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

The IBT worked out badly for NJA. Same will happen at FLEX/FO, in my opinion. If you want a union, go in house.

This is absolutely not true.

A little history:
The Netjets pilot group belonged to a Teamsters local that represented many different types of work forces in the Columbus area. The leadership of this local was not familiar with pilot operations and did not service the Netjets group well. Their contract was not great. Netjets union leadership petitioned the Teamsters Airline Division to form their own local; Local 1108. The 1108 leadership, with the help and full support of the Airline Division and National, negotiated the best contract in the fractional business. Eventually, Bill O., decided that it was not beneficial for the Netjets pilots to be part of the Teamsters, formed NJASAP and left the 1108. Shortly thereafter, Bill O. got a nice, cushy management position with Netjets (....things that make you go ".....hmmmm?")

Since then, the Local 1108 leadership made up of all Flight Options pilots negotiated a very good first contract for that pilot group with the help and full support of the Airline Division and National. While it is not perfect, it is very good.

Currently, the Local 1108 is negotiating for an improved amendment to that first contract with the help and full support of the Airline Division and National. In addition to providing behind the scenes support, the Teamsters Airline division is devoting Airline Division Representative Rick Dubinsky to the bargaining table at their own expense.

I think the Flight Options pilots are very lucky to be part of such a large, powerful organization as the Teamsters and, when the Flex pilots become part of Local 1108, they will, too. To go it alone would be disaster for all of us.

I think we have to stop thinking so selfishly and look at what is going to be best for the whole combined pilot force. There is no question that the pilot force(s) will be combined. The question is: Do you want to do it Kenn's (A dictator's) way? Or do you want to do it our (the democratic way; the combined pilot force working together as a unified force) way? I've seen Kenn's way of doing things. It's not pretty and he certainly doesn't have your best interest in mind.

 

[rsm]

Vomit!!!!!

 

[DirtyBeech]

You know, this program is happening. The only question is who flies the planes. Groups are putting their names in. Some are dropping out. Others are in fluid membership situations. And we still don't know a lot of detail about this. We probably won't know much more when the initial announcement is made. There'll be an open enrollment period so we may find out there are several teams ready for pull the trigger or just 2 or three. There's a lot I don't know.

What I do know is that it's hard to take anyone seriously who's most cogent thought is " so you think you at special", or " blah, blah, blah, shiny jet, blah". Better run before someone knifes me in the back.

It's like dealing with children.

 

[Pacific]

As far as the SNJ syndrome. I know it hits a nerve with you, but if the shoe fits... C'mon Yammer man...the worst part is you know what you're doing is wrong but yet you continue to stay on the same path. I'm sorry, but it says a lot about you.

 

[DirtyBeech]

No Mr. Checkairman showing his backside on FI, I'm learning tons about you. If you want to talk like a man then you have my number. I'm done with this little public/ private discussion we're having.

 

[luckydog]

You know, this program is happening. The only question is who flies the planes. Groups are putting their names in. Some are dropping out. Others are in fluid membership situations. And we still don't know a lot of detail about this. We probably won't know much more when the initial announcement is made. There'll be an open enrollment period so we may find out there are several teams ready for pull the trigger or just 2 or three. There's a lot I don't know.

What I do know is that it's hard to take anyone seriously who's most cogent thought is " so you think you at special", or " blah, blah, blah, shiny jet, blah". Better run before someone knifes me in the back.

It's like dealing with children.

First off, none of us KNOWS anything about it. This is a half baked idea that hasn't been thought out and explained to the group that will be tasked to execute the plan.

Second, using 'everyone else is doing it' as a rationalization for your own bad behavior is just sad.

Lastly, you're right, it is like trying to talk to a child. I want what I want when I want it.

Your clever banter has worn me down, good luck.

 

[Pacific]

I thought public banter was your forte?