GL credibility in question

[Freebrd]

Quit being so hateful and jealous Pave, and you can still apply for lav dumper at UAL or DL. You suck!



Bye Bye---General Lee

Ahh yes, knew it wouldn't take long for Ms Jenny to bring it down to silly comments. See that Heavyload?

 

[pave driver]

I wish only the best for any new prospective pilot searching for their final destination. I have great mates at United and Delta and the truth is all of the big 3 labor contracts are subpar compared to compensation decades ago. The landscape has changed and I believe the new contracts will get us closer to where we should be. There is obviously more to compensation than just hourly rates. There are just too many details that effect a pilot's quality of life and total pay - they are too numerous to list.

I would like to see a JCBA that contains nothing of the past bankruptcy contracts. Profit sharing was created out of bankruptcies due to low compensation. What would be best, in the long run, is a total contract for APA that exceeds the total of United and Delta. This is not to say simply we are the greatest but to build upon the current foundations and then pass the torch to Delta then United pilots to keep building. If total pay does not have current profit sharing "built in", when times get tough again, and they will, you can kiss the Valentine's Day check good bye. When that happens, and rest assured it will, the other guys will look to the APA contract and will then need to reassess how to negotiate for more.

Will United and Delta negotiate a 16.7% pay increase to "capture" profit sharing compensation? It is unlikely. If you are of the mindset that these profit checks will be sustainable for 10,20,30 years, there would be no need to capture that pay within a pilot contract. I have faith that my union, APA will capture this "profit pay" in our new contract, especially in this brief snapshot in time of high profits so we sustain it when the bad times come yet again. The APA in these final days of building the proposal has an important decision to make - profit check or add it to total compensation. I hope we DO NOT have a separate profit sharing check that can be taken away (and taxed at 42%!) and we have it built in making it very difficult for AAG to take it back down the road. We shall see in the near future what path the APA takes. They know my opinion.

 

[General Lee]

I wish only the best for any new prospective pilot searching for their final destination. I have great mates at United and Delta and the truth is all of the big 3 labor contracts are subpar compared to compensation decades ago. The landscape has changed and I believe the new contracts will get us closer to where we should be. There is obviously more to compensation than just hourly rates. There are just too many details that effect a pilot's quality of life and total pay - they are too numerous to list.

I would like to see a JCBA that contains nothing of the past bankruptcy contracts. Profit sharing was created out of bankruptcies due to low compensation. What would be best, in the long run, is a total contract for APA that exceeds the total of United and Delta. This is not to say simply we are the greatest but to build upon the current foundations and then pass the torch to Delta then United pilots to keep building. If total pay does not have current profit sharing "built in", when times get tough again, and they will, you can kiss the Valentine's Day check good bye. When that happens, and rest assured it will, the other guys will look to the APA contract and will then need to reassess how to negotiate for more.

Will United and Delta negotiate a 16.7% pay increase to "capture" profit sharing compensation? It is unlikely. If you are of the mindset that these profit checks will be sustainable for 10,20,30 years, there would be no need to capture that pay within a pilot contract. I have faith that my union, APA will capture this "profit pay" in our new contract, especially in this brief snapshot in time of high profits so we sustain it when the bad times come yet again. The APA in these final days of building the proposal has an important decision to make - profit check or add it to total compensation. I hope we DO NOT have a separate profit sharing check that can be taken away (and taxed at 42%!) and we have it built in making it very difficult for AAG to take it back down the road. We shall see in the near future what path the APA takes. They know my opinion.

Uhhhhh, Doug just offered you DL plus 5% with no profit sharing. The APA has not taken the deal. The likely scenario (watching how Doug has done NOTHING with regards to pay for the East and West when they didn't play ball) is Doug will just wait until 2016 when your "me too" clause goes into affect, matching DL's. That's great, but still no profit sharing. So, by 2016 you may have DL's rates, but that's it. Parker doesn't want to give you profit sharing, and RA doesn't like it either, but it's in the contract for the pilots and the other employees. But for some reason you think that's bad..... 20% total for this year, and most likely 25% for next if oil stays low. And.....you think that's a bad thing. Btw, DL's contract is up in 2015, and RA hasn't missed an amendable date yet. How about Parker? Ooooops, never mind.... It's called higher base rates PLUS profit sharing.

You saw what RA did with your FA pay negotiations, right? He announced on the day of the vote that the DL FA's would get an extra 4% raise, and your FAs went to Parker and demanded 4% more, and he gave in. Why didn't Parker go higher BEFORE RA announced that? Your FA leader was quoted in an article stating "I think RA is screwing with us." (In a good way for the FAs). That just cost Parker an extra $11 million a year. Your leader doesn't want to give an extra dime, and especially no profit sharing.


Pave, it's not even close. Your arguments are very weak, and profit sharing, on top of high pay rates, are good. And it's tough to negotiate "significantly" higher when DL already is the highest paid legacy, and you guys just went through BK. Hopefully the APA does get a HUGE increase, which would help DL and UAL pilot, but I don't think Doug wants to play along.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Parker now must negotiate and deal with the APA. This is in stark contrast to the last USAPA bafoons and there is not one iota of similarity. I hope we don't have profit sharing and it's built into our pay for the long haul. We have so many short timers here that may cause them to act for their own best interests and just ask to take what they can get now without looking down the road for the young pilots.

I hope the BOD will not send this out to vote as the old guys will not look down the road very far. Either way, it will get very interesting in the near future. Parker is set on world domination and wants this behind us. What's the best way to shut up a pilot group? Throw a bunch of money our way. Will it be enough?

 

[dollacrackho]

Were you just trying to get him to hit 20000? Yay for you. Did flight info spring for confetti and balloons and a cake?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

He didn't need the call because he's a US pilot that is now working for the LARGEST MOST PROFITABLE AIRLINE!!!!

Let me fix that for you....

LARGEST DEBT LOAD AIRLINE.....

You are like the Bush economy...taking credit for war time purchases. All you have done is paint a few jets and switch some gates around. Not much else....anybody can be the LARGEST when you combine results without doing much else.

St. Nic, you and pave can let us know how big your weiners are when the economy turns and you are right in the middle of trying to mash your two airlines together.

I wish your airline the best...I really do....very happy being a more profitable little small airline.

 

[pave driver]

Let me fix that for you....

LARGEST DEBT LOAD AIRLINE.....

You are like the Bush economy...taking credit for war time purchases. All you have done is paint a few jets and switch some gates around. Not much else....anybody can be the LARGEST when you combine results without doing much else.

St. Nic, you and pave can let us know how big your weiners are when the economy turns and you are right in the middle of trying to mash your two airlines together.

I wish your airline the best...I really do....very happy being a more profitable little small airline.

We are at the same position in the process of merging in a short 2 years as Delta was 5 1/2 years after merging with Northwest. It is a ginormous benefit to be the last of the big 3 megamergers. Soon we will surpass every Delta metric including employee compensation. This will help Delta employees raise their game and employee compensation. Competition is good for all big 3 employee groups.

 

[pave driver]

Uhhhhh, Doug just offered you DL plus 5% with no profit sharing. The APA has not taken the deal. The likely scenario (watching how Doug has done NOTHING with regards to pay for the East and West when they didn't play ball) is Doug will just wait until 2016 when your "me too" clause goes into affect, matching DL's. That's great, but still no profit sharing. So, by 2016 you may have DL's rates, but that's it. Parker doesn't want to give you profit sharing, and RA doesn't like it either, but it's in the contract for the pilots and the other employees. But for some reason you think that's bad..... 20% total for this year, and most likely 25% for next if oil stays low. And.....you think that's a bad thing. Btw, DL's contract is up in 2015, and RA hasn't missed an amendable date yet. How about Parker? Ooooops, never mind.... It's called higher base rates PLUS profit sharing.

You saw what RA did with your FA pay negotiations, right? He announced on the day of the vote that the DL FA's would get an extra 4% raise, and your FAs went to Parker and demanded 4% more, and he gave in. Why didn't Parker go higher BEFORE RA announced that? Your FA leader was quoted in an article stating "I think RA is screwing with us." (In a good way for the FAs). That just cost Parker an extra $11 million a year. Your leader doesn't want to give an extra dime, and especially no profit sharing.


Pave, it's not even close. Your arguments are very weak, and profit sharing, on top of high pay rates, are good. And it's tough to negotiate "significantly" higher when DL already is the highest paid legacy, and you guys just went through BK. Hopefully the APA does get a HUGE increase, which would help DL and UAL pilot, but I don't think Doug wants to play along.




Bye Bye---General Lee

Actually it was 18 million more in compensation for our FAs with just one phone call from Ms. Glading. It was not, as you have stated, "on the day of the vote". Please do a little more research before posting. Your credibility in stating false "facts" are tiresome. The current proposal from AAG to APA is Delta plus 12% now. I hope APA turns it down - it's not enough. We'll see in the near future where this goes.

 

[St. Nic]

We are at the same position in the process of merging in a short 2 years as Delta was 5 1/2 years after merging with Northwest. It is a ginormous benefit to be the last of the big 3 megamergers. Soon we will surpass every Delta metric including employee compensation. This will help Delta employees raise their game and employee compensation. Competition is good for all big 3 employee groups.

Amen my APA brother!!! Well said! Delta is a distant third and ATL is under attck by SWA. They are getting squeezed hard and once we get full senergies we will set the course for the rest of the industry. Can you say parity +1%?!?!?!

 

[pave driver]

Amen my APA brother!!! Well said! Delta is a distant third and ATL is under attck by SWA. They are getting squeezed hard and once we get full senergies we will set the course for the rest of the industry. Can you say parity +1%?!?!?!

Correct again! Very soon, AAG will unleash on Delta's main hub, Atlanta. American is going to start flying from all 10 hubs into Atlanta on a daily basis at a high frequency. Mmmm...it's gonna get good my brotha.

 

[General Lee]

Actually it was 18 million more in compensation for our FAs with just one phone call from Ms. Glading. It was not, as you have stated, "on the day of the vote". Please do a little more research before posting. Your credibility in stating false "facts" are tiresome. The current proposal from AAG to APA is Delta plus 12% now. I hope APA turns it down - it's not enough. We'll see in the near future where this goes.

Uhhhh, I think you are wrong, as usual. And she said "they were minutes away from a vote." As she stated, she thought RA was "messing with them." You are so WRONG it's funny... Here is the article:


American Flight Attendants Got $13 Million More, Thanks to Delta
TheStreet.com By Ted Reed Sep 25, 2014 12:26 PM


DALLAS (TheStreet) -- American Airlines flight attendant leaders were ready to send a tentative agreement out to members Wednesday morning when they learned that Delta was giving its employees a 4% raise in April.

So Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, went back to American CEO Doug Parker and President Scott Kirby to ask for more -- and got it.

"I went back and said, 'We are no longer better than Delta, so I need some help,'" Glading said in an interview. "And we got a match on Delta. The Delta raise is effective on April 1, but for us it is on Dec. 1."

The Delta match added about $13 million annually to the cost of the American flight attendant contract, Glading said, bringing the value of the industry-leading contract to $193 million annually above the current value of the combined existing American and US Airways contracts.

The APFA estimated that the value of those contracts is about $111 million below the existing market rate, including the Delta raises.

The $193 million figure includes $50 million as the anticipated value of profit-sharing, which American unions do not have.

"Doug Parker has been clear that he doesn't think profit-sharing gets the type of response [from employees] it needs," Glading said. "He didn't want it in the contract and he was willing to give us a premium so we would give up profit-sharing. We looked at it and determined we were talking about $50 million a year in value. It all went smoothly."

From the union's point of view, fixed permanent wage increases trump the possibility of share price gains.

Glading said that flight attendant leaders, meeting early Wednesday morning in Washington, were ready to send out a tentative contract agreement to members when they learned that Delta had announced it was giving most front-line employees a 4% raise effective April 1.


"Our job was to get more than market rate, and we felt we had done that," Glading said. "We were minutes away from a vote. Everyone was for it. Then somebody came running in and said Delta had announced flight attendant raises and that it was on Facebook . Then the room exploded. We started searching the Web. Then we found a Delta flight attendant and had her take pictures of their Web site."

When the story was confirmed, Glading went back to Parker and Kirby.


Glading said she suspects that Delta CEO Richard Anderson timed the pay raise announcement to impact the American contract talks. "I am sure Richard Anderson was messing with us," she said.


"I've been flying for 36 years," Glading added. "I can always remember trying to chase Delta raises, but we were always told you that you have to give up work rules to have Delta wages."

Finally, she said, American Airlines flight attendants can indeed have an industry-leading contract.

Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.




Pave, someday you'll learn not to debate me. And read the last three paragraphs. Delta always leads when it comes to contracts. You and St NIC are wrong, again.....it's YOUR credibility that is in question, not mine. Get your facts straight.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Uhhhh, I think you are wrong, as usual. And she said "they were minutes away from a vote." As she stated, she thought RA was "messing with them." You are so WRONG it's funny... Here is the article:


American Flight Attendants Got $13 Million More, Thanks to Delta
TheStreet.com By Ted Reed Sep 25, 2014 12:26 PM


DALLAS (TheStreet) -- American Airlines flight attendant leaders were ready to send a tentative agreement out to members Wednesday morning when they learned that Delta was giving its employees a 4% raise in April.

So Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, went back to American CEO Doug Parker and President Scott Kirby to ask for more -- and got it.

"I went back and said, 'We are no longer better than Delta, so I need some help,'" Glading said in an interview. "And we got a match on Delta. The Delta raise is effective on April 1, but for us it is on Dec. 1."

The Delta match added about $13 million annually to the cost of the American flight attendant contract, Glading said, bringing the value of the industry-leading contract to $193 million annually above the current value of the combined existing American and US Airways contracts.

The APFA estimated that the value of those contracts is about $111 million below the existing market rate, including the Delta raises.

The $193 million figure includes $50 million as the anticipated value of profit-sharing, which American unions do not have.

"Doug Parker has been clear that he doesn't think profit-sharing gets the type of response [from employees] it needs," Glading said. "He didn't want it in the contract and he was willing to give us a premium so we would give up profit-sharing. We looked at it and determined we were talking about $50 million a year in value. It all went smoothly."

From the union's point of view, fixed permanent wage increases trump the possibility of share price gains.

Glading said that flight attendant leaders, meeting early Wednesday morning in Washington, were ready to send out a tentative contract agreement to members when they learned that Delta had announced it was giving most front-line employees a 4% raise effective April 1.


"Our job was to get more than market rate, and we felt we had done that," Glading said. "We were minutes away from a vote. Everyone was for it. Then somebody came running in and said Delta had announced flight attendant raises and that it was on Facebook . Then the room exploded. We started searching the Web. Then we found a Delta flight attendant and had her take pictures of their Web site."

When the story was confirmed, Glading went back to Parker and Kirby.


Glading said she suspects that Delta CEO Richard Anderson timed the pay raise announcement to impact the American contract talks. "I am sure Richard Anderson was messing with us," she said.


"I've been flying for 36 years," Glading added. "I can always remember trying to chase Delta raises, but we were always told you that you have to give up work rules to have Delta wages."

Finally, she said, American Airlines flight attendants can indeed have an industry-leading contract.

Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.




Pave, someday you'll learn not to debate me. And read the last three paragraphs. Delta always leads when it comes to contracts. You and St NIC are wrong, again.....it's YOUR credibility that is in question, not mine. Get your facts straight.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Do you not know by now the media often gets the facts wrong? Sheesh, you're one of the sheeple. The call was NOT just prior a vote. The voting ends on 9 Nov 14. Do you not see, our FAs will have a far superior contract to Delta, as they should while working for the world's largest and most profitable airline. Next up - the pilots will obtain the best contract and highest pay of the big 3. Profit sharing should be relegated to bankrupt pilot contracts.

 

[Scoot 11]

Amen my APA brother!!! Well said! Delta is a distant third and ATL is under attck by SWA. They are getting squeezed hard and once we get full senergies we will set the course for the rest of the industry. Can you say parity +1%?!?!?!

LMFAO!
Hey pave. Looks likes ou found your "cocksure" in st. nic.
Although...rumor from the philly ramp is he "sits down," to pee!:blush:
So, maybe not!

 

[pave driver]

LMFAO!
Hey pave. Looks likes ou found your "cocksure" in st. nic.
Although...rumor from the philly ramp is he "sits down," to pee!:blush:
So, maybe not!

Seriously, I haven't a clue what you babbling about.

 

[General Lee]

Do you not know by now the media often gets the facts wrong? Sheesh, you're one of the sheeple. The call was NOT just prior a vote. The voting ends on 9 Nov 14. Do you not see, our FAs will have a far superior contract to Delta, as they should while working for the world's largest and most profitable airline. Next up - the pilots will obtain the best contract and highest pay of the big 3. Profit sharing should be relegated to bankrupt pilot contracts.

So, you're a flight attendant? Now it makes sense, since you were obviously there......So, the author of the article was WRONG.... Not you.... Riiiight. The leader of the FAs was getting a vote ready from the FA leaders from each base (kinda like an MEC vote) and was THEN going to send it out for a membership vote. Got it now? Here is the portion of the article so you can try to understand it again...:



"Glading said that flight attendant leaders, meeting early Wednesday morning in Washington, were ready to send out a tentative contract agreement to members when they learned that Delta had announced it was giving most front-line employees a 4% raise effective April 1.

Our job was to get more than market rate, and we felt we had done that," Glading said. "We were minutes away from a vote. Everyone was for it. Then somebody came running in and said Delta had announced flight attendant raises and that it was on Facebook . Then the room exploded. We started searching the Web. Then we found a Delta flight attendant and had her take pictures of their Web site."



Guess what genius? The Delta pilots are the highest paid NOW of the big 3, and Parker already gave the AA pilots his offer. The only reason Parker went higher for the FAs was because of RA, and he was laughing the whole time he was "messing" with you guys. You are outmatched.


And you guys were the BK carrier, don't you remember that? It just happened to you. Why didn't you get profit sharing then? You must have forgotten, it wasn't that long ago. Now you have lower rates and zero profit sharing. Oh wait, you're an FA, so now you're at the top again.... Riiiight.

I told you not to debate me, you'll always lose.



Bye Bye---General Lee