Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[The Architect]

From the DO:

"All I am asking is that you leave your phone on along with Flexmobile during your assigned rest period. Leave texting or any other alerts off since there is always a chance of an erroneous message. There will be no repetitive emails or texts, no notifications from the company unless it's an urgent issue and not breaking your rest accept for operational purposes."

Translation: Leave your phone on so we can call you to cover a trip.

 

[kf4amu]

From the DO:

"All I am asking is that you leave your phone on along with Flexmobile during your assigned rest period. Leave texting or any other alerts off since there is always a chance of an erroneous message. There will be no repetitive emails or texts, no notifications from the company unless it's an urgent issue and not breaking your rest accept for operational purposes."

Translation: Leave your phone on so we can call you to cover a trip.

"accept"??? From a DO?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sounds like the "rolling duty day" that FO had. You could count on 1-2 calls per 8 day rotation. I remember being sent to the hotel at 1800 with an expected duty on at 0700 only to be called at 0330 with a change. Travel local in nature didn't count.
Why are you tired? You had 10 hour off. Next comes the guilt trip. Its your fault that we had to put the burden on another crew.

 

[V1 Rotate]

From the DO:

"All I am asking is that you leave your phone on along with Flexmobile during your assigned rest period. Leave texting or any other alerts off since there is always a chance of an erroneous message. There will be no repetitive emails or texts, no notifications from the company unless it's an urgent issue and not breaking your rest accept for operational purposes."

Translation: Leave your phone on so we can call you to cover a trip.

This should've stayed on Yammer where it was originally posted. Why do Netjets and FLOPs and everyone else need to see this? You should post your response from here on Yammer instead. That being said, I'm no huge fan of what he's asking. I'm not on the list that he was referencing and I've had little to no trouble with the issue that he's discussing in my eight years nor is he asking you to do something illegal. You're still free to continue to not answer as you do now. Nothing is changing on my end.

 

[V1 Rotate]

"accept"??? From a DO?

I agree. All the typos from leadership is quite embarrassing at times. -_-

 

[OldCrow]

Some terms you might want to familiarize yourself with-
1. Could not duplicate
2. No defects noted
3. You have received this 10 in 24 warning
4. To be followed by another 10 in 24 warning
5. Realistically scheduled
6. 4 pilots per airplane crew ratio and were overstaffed or surplus
7. Sorry your the only plane we have to cover this trip
8. Sorry your PTO was denied due to understaffing
9. Generator, PAC and aux hyd pump removed from N? and installed on N?
10. Unfortunately we have to suspend your 401K match at this time for the next 5 years
even though we're profitable.
11. From Bob R, "please kindly call"
12. This item was placed on the NEF list - for 2 years
13. Ops check good
14. Complacency
15. Min rest
16. Your sick, we need a doctors note
17. Sorry but due to schedule change we cannot accommodate crew meals on this leg
18. To be followed by " we will try to get them after your next 4 hour leg"
19. CGF1 Arrival


I really am a middle of the road guy, perhaps even glass half full ( and a Member in Good Standing), but this is sooo true! 90% of the Flex guys I have meet on the road are just great...and I'm not the gloom and doom Guy. My point is: expect so see some VERY gray area MEL's, and pushing. I, like most of you, want to make mission and get'r done, but you are going to see (me thinks), and fly some jets that you would not have launched prior to this.
I really wish ya'll the best. Maybe we'll only have this issue (Maintenance Resolution Process) on the "Value Side" of the house, but I think this will be the first big issue for our new Brothers.

I posted this Dec 2013. I am NOT saying, "I told ya so", but I think you will be surprised how creative things will become.

 

[luckydog]

YOUR (item 16 above) right, we're all screwed. OQL of life won't ever be the same! Maybe the IBT will save us the way they did for Options.... if that's our hope we are in fact screwed.

Answer the phone or don't, nothing has changed, yet.

 

[el raton]

Not a fan of what he asked. Like I said, if this job becomes unbearable...I'll quit! With the resumes he has on his desk, he doesn't give a hoot what we think.

 

[jetwash]

It seems to me that it is only a request for now.

I have a feeling that in the future it might be a requirement.

 

[slowtation capt]

I'm not on the list that he was referencing QUOTE]

List? Hmmmm what kind of list is he keeping? I all ready heard of 1 list, is this a list of who doesn't answer their phone? If it doesn't matter if you don't answer you phone, then why keep a list?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I'm not on the list that he was referencing QUOTE]

List? Hmmmm what kind of list is he keeping? I all ready heard of 1 list, is this a list of who doesn't answer their phone? If it doesn't matter if you don't answer you phone, then why keep a list?

So they can know who to call and who not to call when things change.

You always get 10 hours of rest. We usually get a 14 hour block with the last 4 being changeable.

There are a few that will never answer a call even if their departure was at 1500 and they got into the hotel at 1800. These pilots are taking a stand because they want to.

If you are tired, don't fly. If you are not fit for duty, don't accept the assignment.

Unfortunately there are people that have forgotten that we get paid to fly airplanes, not find reasons not to or use a union to hide behind so we don't have to.

From what I are it sounds like to DO wants to know why people are refusing to ever answer the phone in their 10+4.

Our business model is constantly changing. If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else.

 

[The Architect]

Are You Punished

So they can know who to call and who not to call when things change.

You always get 10 hours of rest. We usually get a 14 hour block with the last 4 being changeable.

There are a few that will never answer a call even if their departure was at 1500 and they got into the hotel at 1800. These pilots are taking a stand because they want to.

If you are tired, don't fly. If you are not fit for duty, don't accept the assignment.

Unfortunately there are people that have forgotten that we get paid to fly airplanes, not find reasons not to or use a union to hide behind so we don't have to.

From what I are it sounds like to DO wants to know why people are refusing to ever answer the phone in their 10+4.

Our business model is constantly changing. If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else.

From the DO:

"It is a fact that the no-call list hurts the operation, drives more dead-head, duty hours, standby and most of all punishes the crewmembers that are not on the list."

So, do you feel punished?

 

[Brit]

Really was a stupid thing for a DO to say.
In writing anyway.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

From the DO:

"It is a fact that the no-call list hurts the operation, drives more dead-head, duty hours, standby and most of all punishes the crewmembers that are not on the list."

So, do you feel punished?

The thought never crossed my mind.

When I go to work I fly the trips the company assigns me. I don't spend time worried about what other crews are or are not doing.

 

[warlord19]

From the DO:

"All I am asking is that you leave your phone on along with Flexmobile during your assigned rest period. Leave texting or any other alerts off since there is always a chance of an erroneous message. There will be no repetitive emails or texts, no notifications from the company unless it's an urgent issue and not breaking your rest accept for operational purposes."

Translation: Leave your phone on so we can call you to cover a trip.

The DO is just stating the obvious…not being contactable directly affects DH, charter, and ultimately profitability. Management has ID’d this area of weakness in our OP’s and is addressing it, something any GOOD company would do.

Pilots are guaranteed 10 hrs rest every day. You have the legal choice of turning off your phone. I’ve chosen to turn off the phone occasionally, usually ‘cause I was pooped, but it’s generally not what I do BECAUSE I’m not tired and don’t want to constrain the company’s efficiency…apparently there’s quite a few who turn their phones off every night.

No one likes getting calls for pop-ups, break-downs,etc but we know that is what happens in the REAL WORLD. I’ve earned a good living at Flex for many years and understand what it takes to make the company efficient and profitable and continue to pay it’s bills(and salaries). There are no guarantees that fractional flying will even survive, so we must be efficient. I simply don’t buy this union mentality of “we’ll show them who’s boss” puffery and the fear mongering they stir up in order to persuade you to join the clownish IBT.
WL

 

[Helmsalee]

"If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else."

TWA, at 0500, how do you know if your partner is rested?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Control freak or is something else going on?

 

[The Architect]

But, It's all about Trust

From the DO:

"Over the past year and especially the past several months it is abundantly clear that no significant quality of life changes have occurred and our new leadership wants nothing more than to win our trust and build an even better company on the foundation we established. Earning your trust in the new company with new leadership is no easy task."

"Let's bring back a level of trust we have not seen here in a while. I am asking that we abolish that list and I promise you this: no one from the company will call you more than once while you are in rest."

"Knowing you are contactable is a huge advantage to the operation and will go a long way in rebuilding the diminished level of trust, but it must start with you."

See, it's all about trust. The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

"If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else."

TWA, at 0500, how do you know if your partner is rested?

I will usually either send an email or call. If there is no response, then it is a no. If I get an answer and he/she says no, it is a no.

Unless we are both ready and willing to accept the assignment it is a no.

Not sure what is so complicated about this.

In all of the times we have said no there has never been any pushback from the company.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots."
From what I've read here, it sounds like the Flex pilots already trust their management. What are they asking for then?

 

[The Architect]

In order for the Pilot to Rebuild the Trust...

"The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots."
From what I've read here, it sounds like the Flex pilots already trust their management. What are they asking for then?

From the DO:

"It is the issue of the "no call list". The list of crewmembers that have told the company they are turning off their phones during rest."

"I am asking that we abolish that list..."

"The blanket policy of not being able to call makes no sense."

"In the next several weeks we will be calling everyone on the no-call list."

I guess if a pilot would like to "rebuild that trust," when management calls him, he will say, "Take me off that list. I want to rebuild that trust. Call me any time you want while I'm in rest and ask me to fly."

 

[CL300Pilot]

I find it real interesting the amount of people who do not work for Flexjet that seem to know everything that is wrong with us. Here are some points from my end. I have done both regarding the phone. I got ticked because dispatch erroneously accused me of delaying my off duty time and turned off my phone when they made the mistake of giving me 16 hours rest, and yes, it blew two trips and drove a charter. I have also called dispatch and told them that I was wiped out and I needed all of the rest I could get and was given 15 hours of uninterrupted rest. Guess what....I am still employed, did not even do a carpet dance and have been more than taken care of by the company since then when I was having some personal problems.

His request is rather simple. Help the company by being contactable within the guidelines of the FAR's so that we don't have to have some stupid arsed rule put in the FOM because some ****************************** wants to screw over the company. I have flown with several here who just don't want to fly, in which case, get a different career. I have never heard of a single pilot here at Flex who has called in fatigued or called OPS for more rest and have been terminated or put on suspension.

 

[squawk]

The rest interruptions are very rare. Many time it comes on the eve of a trip due to changes, and it is done more for courtesy and convenience rather than an early morning callout. Most of these changes occur due to aircraft write ups submitted after post flights, or a crew did not get into position the night before for operational reasons.

There is nothing malicious about this call policy. It helps the company cover our owners, and again, it is really quite rare. If we will go to work with a Vinny attitude and "make it happen", we are a better company with a razor edge.

This is the difference of just being a fraction pilot or working for our owners with a true servants heart.

 

[The Architect]

Obligation to Answer a Call is Not Rest

His request is rather simple. Help the company by being contactable within the guidelines of the FAR's so that we don't have to have some stupid arsed rule put in the FOM because some ****************************** wants to screw over the company.

FAA Legal Interpretation to Mr. Rogers, September 27, 2010:

"The FAA has consistently interpreted its rest requirements to be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise. See Dec. 19, 2005 Letter to Michael T. Brazill, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The obligation to be available for assignment while not on duty is not considered rest because the pilot is not free from all restraint. See Dec. 15, 2005 Letter to Capt. Michael A. Citrano, Jr., from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The FAA has also determined that a crewmember's rest period is not disturbed by one telephone call from the certificate holder, but if the pilot is obligated to answer that call then he is not at rest. See Nov. 7, 2003 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division."

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

FAA Legal Interpretation to Mr. Rogers, September 27, 2010:

"The FAA has consistently interpreted its rest requirements to be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise. See Dec. 19, 2005 Letter to Michael T. Brazill, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The obligation to be available for assignment while not on duty is not considered rest because the pilot is not free from all restraint. See Dec. 15, 2005 Letter to Capt. Michael A. Citrano, Jr., from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The FAA has also determined that a crewmember's rest period is not disturbed by one telephone call from the certificate holder, but if the pilot is obligated to answer that call then he is not at rest. See Nov. 7, 2003 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division."

Thank you for finding a reference that shows what our DO is asking for is legal.

They will only attempt to contact you one time and you are under no obligation to respond.

You should be arguing for our side, you are already doing a great job with your research.

 

[The Architect]

Picking Sides

Thank you for finding a reference that shows what our DO is asking for is legal.

They will only attempt to contact you one time and you are under no obligation to respond.

You should be arguing for our side, you are already doing a great job with your research.

Who said I was on anyone's side?

I didn't.

And I don't think anyone has said it's against the FAA "one call" policy for the certificate holder to call a pilot while in rest. Just like it does not violate regulations to answer that call.

However, is it permissible for a certificate holder to tell a pilot that they expect their pilots to answer a call during a rest period?

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options. But since ya gotta know, nothing has changed in the way FJ operates. The DO's email is just to reiterate that our daily business is fluid and changes do occur during the night. Use common sense. That's the moral of the story.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"nothing has changed in the way FJ operates". So what's the point of the email? And about the conversation only including Flex pilots, are you covering for someone or do you have something to hide? Help me to understand what really going on. Thanks GC

 

[slowtation capt]

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options.

Then keep it off a public forum message board

 

[The Architect]

Dirty Secret?

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options. But since ya gotta know, nothing has changed in the way FJ operates.

Excuse me. But Flexjet pilots repeatedly educated Flight Options pilots that DW was their CEO. Their boss.

So, same boss. Soon to be the same operating certificate. Why shouldn't Flight Options pilots be part of the conversation?

And sorry, but wrong. Flexjet IS changing the way it operates. This is a perfect example.