Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[Helmsalee]

"If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else."

TWA, at 0500, how do you know if your partner is rested?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Control freak or is something else going on?

 

[The Architect]

But, It's all about Trust

From the DO:

"Over the past year and especially the past several months it is abundantly clear that no significant quality of life changes have occurred and our new leadership wants nothing more than to win our trust and build an even better company on the foundation we established. Earning your trust in the new company with new leadership is no easy task."

"Let's bring back a level of trust we have not seen here in a while. I am asking that we abolish that list and I promise you this: no one from the company will call you more than once while you are in rest."

"Knowing you are contactable is a huge advantage to the operation and will go a long way in rebuilding the diminished level of trust, but it must start with you."

See, it's all about trust. The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

"If I have had adequate rest and so has my partner, then I am willing to fly the trip. If either of us feels we are not rested or ready, then please find someone else."

TWA, at 0500, how do you know if your partner is rested?

I will usually either send an email or call. If there is no response, then it is a no. If I get an answer and he/she says no, it is a no.

Unless we are both ready and willing to accept the assignment it is a no.

Not sure what is so complicated about this.

In all of the times we have said no there has never been any pushback from the company.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots."
From what I've read here, it sounds like the Flex pilots already trust their management. What are they asking for then?

 

[The Architect]

In order for the Pilot to Rebuild the Trust...

"The level of trust has been diminished, and rebuilding that trust must start with the pilots."
From what I've read here, it sounds like the Flex pilots already trust their management. What are they asking for then?

From the DO:

"It is the issue of the "no call list". The list of crewmembers that have told the company they are turning off their phones during rest."

"I am asking that we abolish that list..."

"The blanket policy of not being able to call makes no sense."

"In the next several weeks we will be calling everyone on the no-call list."

I guess if a pilot would like to "rebuild that trust," when management calls him, he will say, "Take me off that list. I want to rebuild that trust. Call me any time you want while I'm in rest and ask me to fly."

 

[CL300Pilot]

I find it real interesting the amount of people who do not work for Flexjet that seem to know everything that is wrong with us. Here are some points from my end. I have done both regarding the phone. I got ticked because dispatch erroneously accused me of delaying my off duty time and turned off my phone when they made the mistake of giving me 16 hours rest, and yes, it blew two trips and drove a charter. I have also called dispatch and told them that I was wiped out and I needed all of the rest I could get and was given 15 hours of uninterrupted rest. Guess what....I am still employed, did not even do a carpet dance and have been more than taken care of by the company since then when I was having some personal problems.

His request is rather simple. Help the company by being contactable within the guidelines of the FAR's so that we don't have to have some stupid arsed rule put in the FOM because some ****************************** wants to screw over the company. I have flown with several here who just don't want to fly, in which case, get a different career. I have never heard of a single pilot here at Flex who has called in fatigued or called OPS for more rest and have been terminated or put on suspension.

 

[squawk]

The rest interruptions are very rare. Many time it comes on the eve of a trip due to changes, and it is done more for courtesy and convenience rather than an early morning callout. Most of these changes occur due to aircraft write ups submitted after post flights, or a crew did not get into position the night before for operational reasons.

There is nothing malicious about this call policy. It helps the company cover our owners, and again, it is really quite rare. If we will go to work with a Vinny attitude and "make it happen", we are a better company with a razor edge.

This is the difference of just being a fraction pilot or working for our owners with a true servants heart.

 

[The Architect]

Obligation to Answer a Call is Not Rest

His request is rather simple. Help the company by being contactable within the guidelines of the FAR's so that we don't have to have some stupid arsed rule put in the FOM because some ****************************** wants to screw over the company.

FAA Legal Interpretation to Mr. Rogers, September 27, 2010:

"The FAA has consistently interpreted its rest requirements to be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise. See Dec. 19, 2005 Letter to Michael T. Brazill, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The obligation to be available for assignment while not on duty is not considered rest because the pilot is not free from all restraint. See Dec. 15, 2005 Letter to Capt. Michael A. Citrano, Jr., from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The FAA has also determined that a crewmember's rest period is not disturbed by one telephone call from the certificate holder, but if the pilot is obligated to answer that call then he is not at rest. See Nov. 7, 2003 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division."

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

FAA Legal Interpretation to Mr. Rogers, September 27, 2010:

"The FAA has consistently interpreted its rest requirements to be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise. See Dec. 19, 2005 Letter to Michael T. Brazill, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The obligation to be available for assignment while not on duty is not considered rest because the pilot is not free from all restraint. See Dec. 15, 2005 Letter to Capt. Michael A. Citrano, Jr., from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The FAA has also determined that a crewmember's rest period is not disturbed by one telephone call from the certificate holder, but if the pilot is obligated to answer that call then he is not at rest. See Nov. 7, 2003 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division."

Thank you for finding a reference that shows what our DO is asking for is legal.

They will only attempt to contact you one time and you are under no obligation to respond.

You should be arguing for our side, you are already doing a great job with your research.

 

[The Architect]

Picking Sides

Thank you for finding a reference that shows what our DO is asking for is legal.

They will only attempt to contact you one time and you are under no obligation to respond.

You should be arguing for our side, you are already doing a great job with your research.

Who said I was on anyone's side?

I didn't.

And I don't think anyone has said it's against the FAA "one call" policy for the certificate holder to call a pilot while in rest. Just like it does not violate regulations to answer that call.

However, is it permissible for a certificate holder to tell a pilot that they expect their pilots to answer a call during a rest period?

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options. But since ya gotta know, nothing has changed in the way FJ operates. The DO's email is just to reiterate that our daily business is fluid and changes do occur during the night. Use common sense. That's the moral of the story.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"nothing has changed in the way FJ operates". So what's the point of the email? And about the conversation only including Flex pilots, are you covering for someone or do you have something to hide? Help me to understand what really going on. Thanks GC

 

[slowtation capt]

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options.

Then keep it off a public forum message board

 

[The Architect]

Dirty Secret?

Like someone alluded to earlier, this is a Flexjet conversation and should only include Flexjet employees, not Flight Options. But since ya gotta know, nothing has changed in the way FJ operates.

Excuse me. But Flexjet pilots repeatedly educated Flight Options pilots that DW was their CEO. Their boss.

So, same boss. Soon to be the same operating certificate. Why shouldn't Flight Options pilots be part of the conversation?

And sorry, but wrong. Flexjet IS changing the way it operates. This is a perfect example.