Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[gret]

Whew...this is really bad news and should be examined by the highest levels of Obama's administration.

Besides bad grammar, the joker was asking another human to answer the phone! Terrible...who knows what the employee could have been doing on the computer...to disrupt their personal business is downright lame and could lead to...well I'm not sure...but it could have been bad!

 

[BE40Driver]

DW is our operations for Flex and FO CEO. MS is our Sales, marketing, Owner Services, HR, accounting CEO for both companies. If we don't sell we don't fly! We still all work for KR.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Uncle keeps us flying because we make money for him. I used to be one of the "go to" guys. I did repo flights that required a fuel stop. I had no problem doing my share of the work. The 0300 wake-up call to fly and be done at 1000-1200 occasionally wasn't bad. When I requested hotels is when I got the pushback from the company. "You haven't been on duty long enough" doesn't cut it.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

One more item that goes on the change list.

 

[exagony]

FAA Legal Interpretation to Mr. Rogers, September 27, 2010:

"The FAA has consistently interpreted its rest requirements to be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility from work should the occasion arise. See Dec. 19, 2005 Letter to Michael T. Brazill, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The obligation to be available for assignment while not on duty is not considered rest because the pilot is not free from all restraint. See Dec. 15, 2005 Letter to Capt. Michael A. Citrano, Jr., from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division. The FAA has also determined that a crewmember's rest period is not disturbed by one telephone call from the certificate holder, but if the pilot is obligated to answer that call then he is not at rest. See Nov. 7, 2003 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division."

So how does the ruling work when they call your cell phone at 3 am and you don't answer, so then they call your hotel room next - seems to me that's 2 phone calls interrupting rest.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I forgot about the call to your flying partner. Do you know where he is? NO. Its 3am.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I forgot about the call to your flying partner. Do you know where he is? NO. Its 3am.

They have this great new invention. It's called a cellular telephone. You don't have to know where somebody is to get ahold of them.

Our company is so up on the times that they issue one to every pilot.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So how does the ruling work when they call your cell phone at 3 am and you don't answer, so then they call your hotel room next - seems to me that's 2 phone calls interrupting rest.

From my experience they call your cell phone. If there is no answer then the go to the next crew they could use.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Let me break it down so you can understand. Dispatch calls one and he doesn't answer. Then they call the other crewmember they are paired with. Now you are awake and the other guy is still sleeping. You can guess how the rest of the day goes.

 

[brokeflyer]

does flex normally just violate part 91k like that all the time?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Okay, let me ask the obvious question. WHY does your DO want you to answer the phone during rest?

Lets say you finished a trip and were placed in rest at 1800 and were briefed for a 10 AM check in. Is your DO saying they can call you at midnight and if you answer they can re-brief you for an 0400 show (10 hours after shutdown) for a revenue trip?

If so, that is PATENTLY ILLEGAL.

Under Part 91K or 135, you became unavailable for duty at 1800 but your PROSPECTIVE REST period doesn't end until 10 AM. You CANNOT legally perform a program flight prior to 10 AM in this scenario. Since that is the case, what is the point of having you answer the phone while in rest?

Yes, I know 135 operators have been distorting, shading, and violating the rest regulations for decades but the previously mentioned FAA clarifications should have FINALLY put this issue to bed (pardon the pun).

Rest is rest. That's not a union vs. non-union thing. It's a legal vs. illegal thing.

 

[doh]

does flex normally just violate part 91k like that all the time?

We operate under 135 rules all the time.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Okay, let me ask the obvious question. WHY does your DO want you to answer the phone during rest?

Lets say you finished a trip and were placed in rest at 1800 and were briefed for a 10 AM check in. Is your DO saying they can call you at midnight and if you answer they can re-brief you for an 0400 show (10 hours after shutdown) for a revenue trip?

If so, that is PATENTLY ILLEGAL.

Under Part 91K or 135, you became unavailable for duty at 1800 but your PROSPECTIVE REST period doesn't end until 10 AM. You CANNOT legally perform a program flight prior to 10 AM in this scenario. Since that is the case, what is the point of having you answer the phone while in rest?

Yes, I know 135 operators have been distorting, shading, and violating the rest regulations for decades but the previously mentioned FAA clarifications should have FINALLY put this issue to bed (pardon the pun).

Rest is rest. That's not a union vs. non-union thing. It's a legal vs. illegal thing.

They can move your scheduled show time up by as much as four hours if rest permits. And you are contactable in the first or last two hours of your rest block, but not both. So no. They couldn't have you show at 4 am. They could call you at 4 am to advise you of a 6 am show in the scenario you laid out.

The nightmare scenario, which admittedly almost never happens, is a 4 pm show where you are dutied on at noon so that you aren't available for 14 hours starting at 4 pm. Rest permitting they can change that duty on time to 8 am and contact you at 6 am. That has never happened to me, but it does set up a scenario where you can't protect both sides of the clock.

 

[squawk]

What is the motive for all this attention to the change band?
Is FJ preparing to respond to anticipated service disruptions on the FO side of the store?
Sooner or later, the IBT is going to feel the need to behave badly. Just talk to any NJ crew to find out what it may be like.

 

[gutshotdraw]

They can move your scheduled show time up by as much as four hours if rest permits. And you are contactable in the first or last two hours of your rest block, but not both. So no. They couldn't have you show at 4 am. They could call you at 4 am to advise you of a 6 am show in the scenario you laid out.

The nightmare scenario, which admittedly almost never happens, is a 4 pm show where you are dutied on at noon so that you aren't available for 14 hours starting at 4 pm. Rest permitting they can change that duty on time to 8 am and contact you at 6 am. That has never happened to me, but it does set up a scenario where you can't protect both sides of the clock.

WHO gave you that interpretation? Your POI?

You can get away with that if the new brief is for travel or a Part 91 repositioning flight but NOT for a 91K or 135 flight.

Given my discussions with two FSDO inspectors that I flew with once upon a time, AND multiple published interpretations of the regulations including the one cited above, when you go off duty with a brief in hand, the 10 hour period prior to the scheduled report time is the prospective rest period and CANNOT be changed to require an earlier show. IF you are contacted with a one time phone call during rest, the show time CAN be made for a LATER time.

Sounds to me like the best answer is to NOT ANSWER THE DAMN PHONE until show time.