Delta and college GPA

[pilotyip]

Why didn't he finish a degree?

You look at it from the wrong perspective- at some point, the question is why wouldn't you achieve that when 95% of your peers did?
Why does someone without that degree, who didn't do the work, who didn't figure out a way to finance it, supposed to be on an equal playing field with those of us who did?

Is this little league where we all get a trophy ?

Yip, you have yet to tell me the actual degree program you have an issue with. Why do you avoid giving us real world examples of "bumblebee state"?

I'm curious to know which degrees out there are easy, bought and paid for

nice subject change, I was responding to your post you could not have critical thinking skills without a college degree. From I see here you are a supporter of the box checking, you don't have learn anything or go to school, but you prove your superiority by having a degree like 95% peers, most of whom would join the 47% of college graduate now working at a Starbucks type place because their college did not teach any marketable skills. Well except to check the box on an airline application.

 

[waveflyer]

None of which I said yip
You still won't answer which real universities you equate to bumblebee state.

 

[pilotyip]

None of which I said yip
You still won't answer which real universities you equate to bumblebee state.

I don't
I want to fly with well rounded pilots who have a track record of discipline, study, and finishing goals.
Those traits are directly related to aviation.
What does an airline do when it hires a pilot?
Puts them into CLASS.

You didn't say this? It infers that college is the only place to learn to go to class even though at some colleges you never go to class. But going through a military flight training program in the Army as a WO doesn't count as going to class? Pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

BTW I am not going to name any colleges, but there have been threads referring to these college where you can get a degree with the least amount of work and money. Go check'em. As I posted before I care to offend no one who went to these colleges.

 

[PCL_128]

Not "required" but a good start.

I would say that the military is an acceptable substitute. Or lots of work experience. Or lots of non-profit volunteer experience. Etc. There are many ways to become a well-rounded individual. College is for educating, not for "rounding."

I fear for this country and the absolute war on education that is going on- debt, "liberal bias!!" Like what was posted above-

Education is great and all, but we should recognize that not everyone needs a college education. And I'm sorry, but flying airplanes is a skilled labor field, not a field requiring high level academics. Pilots push this degree nonsense because they want to pretend that they're on a level playing field with doctors and lawyers. But they aren't. And that's why HR departments don't care whether your degree is in basket weaving or "professional aeronautics." It's meaningless to the actual job.

 

[jonjuan]

My plan, should I be so lucky as to get an interview much less the job, is to go back home to the mountains...now THERE'S the good life.

Que the banjo music.....

 

[jonjuan]

Right again! a guy with the on-line degree from Bumblebee State is so much better rounded than a high school grad with two years of college at the University of Arizona who went through Army Flight Training. He flew all over the world transitioned into fixed wing, flew Army YIP's around the US. But this Army WO never got a college degree so in your eyes he is a sub-standard person with no rounding experience or any discipline at all. Make sure you don't get any of them in the SWA cockpit, because I know they have hired some of these guys. Maybe you can have like a "scab" list to make sure everyone you fly with had a college degree.



Thank you, you get it

You should just use "bill Gates" as your response to every post with which you disagree.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I think the point here is that Delta can afford to be picky and choose people who managed their lives early on to present in a way that shows responsibility, foresight, planning, self control. A willingness to live your life in a way that is well rounded with good decisions from start to finish.

While some train wrecks straighten themselves out later in life (myself included) they want the folks who never derailed.

 

[pilotyip]

I think the point here is that Delta can afford to be picky and choose people who managed their lives early on to present in a way that shows responsibility, foresight, planning, self control. A willingness to live your life in a way that is well rounded with good decisions from start to finish.

While some train wrecks straighten themselves out later in life (myself included) they want the folks who never derailed.

yes but in their narrow mindedness they say these traits can only be developed in college. At some colleges for sure at other college not so sure, but all colleges are treated the same when you check the box in the lower left corner. I do not support college as the only way to develop these skills, I have just met too many successful people who did not get a four year degree. I know too many people who did not go to college, but have great jobs, successful careers and a good life. I know too many college graduates who are working at Starbucks type job because they have not developed any skills that have any market demand.

Yes I know that is the way DAL wants to do it, good for them it is there company, I just think their hiring mangers are stupid.

BTW: They used to hire without the degree and those guys did just fine. Maybe it was because most of them were Navy pilots of the Vietnam era.

 

[jonjuan]

I have just met too many successful people who did not get a four year degree.

IHOP managers don't really qualify as successful.

 

[pilotyip]

IHOP managers don't really qualify as successful.

No we are not talking about an IHOP manager. We are talking about an auto repair shop run by a graduate of automotive tech school making $200K/yr. A Navy trained Nuclear Power Plant operator making 100K/yr, and a skilled welder making $150k/yr. Plus the beauty of these job are they cannot be exported.

BTW I am going to bet most college graduate could not do these high-paying jobs because they lack the aptitude

 

[BentOver]

Just stop arguing or trying to get YIP to think like the other 99% of the pilot profession.. It'll be like a dog chasing it's tail... Round and round and round til you forget why the heck you started the debate in the first place. He has some generic canned response for every scenario. And most of them he has used for the last decade or so on here.

 

[pilotyip]

Just stop arguing or trying to get YIP to think like the other 99% of the pilot profession.. It'll be like a dog chasing it's tail... Round and round and round til you forget why the heck you started the debate in the first place. He has some generic canned response for every scenario. And most of them he has used for the last decade or so on here.

Of course they are canned the issues remain the same. The 99% feel that college is the only source of knowledge in the universe. That only college can make a person well rounded, disciplined, or a place to develop critical thinking skills. I just happen to know it is not true. That there are no other experiences in life that give a person develop these skills. To the college crowd an on-line degree with no on-campus or classroom time makes one superior. But the non-college grad Army WO who has flown all over the world, been put into leadership positions and given responsibility beyond most college graduates is well in the college grads words an uneducated person.

This has been going on for well over a decade if you are a new comer to these exchanges. I pretty well have everyone now agreeing it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. The same as Robert Lovett stated in 1941 when Hap Arnold told him that you needed college to be a Army pilot. Well a bunch of high school prove Hap wrong

 

[waveflyer]

No- you don't yip

But whatever makes you sleep well-
What you are talking about are the exceptions
And most airlines provide space to hire the exceptions
It's still something they ought to answer
So why not college?

Oh and bill gates was an exception as well as Steve jobs-
Most of us are not them, but with good choices and putting our minds to it we can still be pretty successful-

It is still 100% bad advice to recommend that an aspiring pilot not get a degree-
That's reality

What you're talking about is your desire to change reality-
You disagree-
I am glad SWA hires those exceptions- I've certainly met and flown with many a great one-
I needed college to take on this profession and I bet most of us did as well-

 

[PCL_128]

I needed college to take on this profession

This I find curious. Why? Other than your SWA koolaid drinking, you seem like an otherwise intelligent individual. Why do you think you "needed" college to do a rather simple job?

 

[Dan Roman]

No we are not talking about an IHOP manager. We are talking about an auto repair shop run by a graduate of automotive tech school making $200K/yr. A Navy trained Nuclear Power Plant operator making 100K/yr, and a skilled welder making $150k/yr. Plus the beauty of these job are they cannot be exported.

BTW I am going to bet most college graduate could not do these high-paying jobs because they lack the aptitude

Yip, you left out Strippers making $100,000, although the job CAN be imported.

 

[Dan Roman]

I needed college to take on this profession and I bet most of us did as well-

Wave, Three of the best pilots I've known never went to college. They went right into flying complex multi engine aircraft at a very young age and made it into HA, Piedmont and AA (via AirCal). They were much better pilots than almost all the highly educated one's I've known. I've known pilots that over emphasize the importance of were they went to college too. They weren't so good.
That said, the reality is, having graduated from college is just one more resume builder that I can understand an employer would want to have checked off. But it in no way indicates any superiority or higher level of competence in the cockpit.

 

[DCAA320]

So pilotyip, in what semester did you drop out of college?

 

[vetteracer]

Well, I?m out. 2.3 in Mec Eng, should have got that basket weaving degree instead! That would be much more beneficial in the cockpit. And all those traffic tickets in my muscle car. Ah, what the heck, I?d be no fun to visit with.

 

[pilotyip]

So pilotyip, in what semester did you drop out of college?

Never did, but should have to get a good start in this career. I got a BS from Michigan State University in 1965. But I should have dropped out in 1963 after two year joined the Navy as a NAVCAD. I could have gotten out in 1968 when DAL hired Navy pilots without degrees. In fact at that time it was almost a pipeline, get out tell DAL you were a Navy pilot and wanted to work there. In fact I saw guys get hired while still on active duty, doing DAL GS while on terminal leave. I watched guys do it they never had a lay off, or loss of the Captain's. I guess you could say going to college ruined my career. don't ya think?

All that being said, I did find getting a Masters in Business very useful in understanding money, investing and budgeting. Good things to know when planing for retirement.

Wave, Three of the best pilots I've known never went to college. They went right into flying complex multi engine aircraft at a very young age and made it into HA, Piedmont and AA (via AirCal). They were much better pilots than almost all the highly educated one's I've known. I've known pilots that over emphasize the importance of were they went to college too. They weren't so good.
That said, the reality is, having graduated from college is just one more resume builder that I can understand an employer would want to have checked off. But it in no way indicates any superiority or higher level of competence in the cockpit.

Thank you, you get it.

 

[pilotyip]

Well, I?m out. 2.3 in Mec Eng, should have got that basket weaving degree instead! That would be much more beneficial in the cockpit. And all those traffic tickets in my muscle car. Ah, what the heck, I?d be no fun to visit with.

Yes but you might actually be learning something that someone will pay you to do for them. A 2.3 in ME will bring a whole lot more money than a 4.0 in French History, Gender studies, etc.

 

[PCL_128]

All that being said, I did find getting a Masters in Business very useful in understanding money, investing and budgeting. Good things to know when planing for retirement.

Really? Then why haven't you retired?

 

[DCAA320]

I guess you could say going to college ruined my career. don't ya think?

Nope, timing is everything and you didn't have a crystal ball.

As for me, I just happened to be taking a ME class, 75% of the Navy pilot test was what I had just studied (gears, pulleys, slopes, friction ...) so going to college is what got me into aviation.

I really hate to agree with Wave , but the HS only graduate great aviators are out there, but they are the exceptions.

Going to college never hurt anyone, and there is an idiot on here who thinks getting a masters is a bad thing, but hey, life goes on.

 

[inline]

I had a 3.0, did it in 3 1/2 years while flying freight and working two other jobs. I am glad DAL wasn't hiring when I was looking. Such superficial BS. I fly with guys that are lawyers, doctors or have maters in Engineering. Some of them cant fly worth a crap, have zero SA and no personal skills. Then there's the few who never went to college, great pilots and a blast to be with. Just another way for DAL and any other airline to miss out on great candidates. Same with SWA idiotic type requirement. We miss a lot of great pilots because of that.

Hear hear

 

[Whine Lover]

My Dad gave me a very good piece of advice many years ago:

" Son, what do you think the importance of attending college and getting a degree is? "

" Uh...to learn?"

" Besides that."

" Uh...I dunno'."

" Learning is part of it, meeting people from different backgrounds and gaining different perspectives is part of it....But, most importantly it's so you never lose out on a job opportunity because the other guy can check a box that you can't. "


Thanks, Dad.


YKW

 

[acaTerry]

Just stop arguing or trying to get YIP to think like the other 99% of the pilot profession.. It'll be like a dog chasing it's tail... Round and round and round til you forget why the heck you started the debate in the first place. He has some generic canned response for every scenario. And most of them he has used for the last decade or so on here.

99%...have you conducted a study? Try a new number, grabbing numbers out of the air is a classic liberal democrat strategy ---a la Bill Maher---when they are losing a debate (no insult intended--I'm not accusing you of being a liberal democrat).
There are times I disagree with Yip, but when he's got a point, he's got a point. And I have to say that I'd take trade school graduates for work over the average college grad any day. Someone specifically trained in their work is:
a) going to be better at it and
b) shows they have passion for it, unlike the Key Bank suckers with their "I think I'll try that pilot job because it looks cool" mentality that has led so many spoiled brats to enter the pilot ranks over the years.
BUT! Don't confuse trade schools with the pilot ticket factories that have popped up all over.

Like it or not, the world does not owe all of you a living because you went to college. It's just another feather in your hat. I'll take a hard worker who loves their work over a pseudo-intellectual who has been educated beyond their intelligence. I have my 2 degrees, big deal. I'll take someone with enlisted military background over a silver-spooned college grad any day. The military gives you more useful life skills that apply to ANY job in life, than some pompous ass professor in his ivory tower. Honestly, here's everything that college tried to teach me:
a) Everyone's culture should be celebrated and embraced...except the American culture. Assimilation is bad and shoving your culture and language on others is good.
b) If anyone ever failed at anything, it is somehow the fault of a white male who worked his way up to something.
c) If you believe in God, you are an extremist, and you are stupid. But theories that have no more proof than your own faith are taken seriously.
d) There is ONE acceptable religion, and that is atheism.
e) Gay is natural but gender is not.
f) Marital fidelity is why America's society has destabilized.
g) The military is for suckers (but "support our troops" is a catchy slogan so let's fake it).
h) The world hates us because we are bad. If we just hug them, they'll be nice. (BTW...that worked like a charm in keeping WWI and WWII from happening, didn't it?).
i) For an institution of broadening thought, college professors sure do not like students to attempt to broaden their thought by exploring disagreements. Take the professors' spew as gospel, and you'll be fine.

So all in all, the only people who get anything out of college are the ones who realize that they are not in fact better prepared than anyone else. The grads who think they are such fountains of ability and knowledge because they went to school...we had a term for them in the military, we called those Second Lieutenants.

 

[flyboyike]

Like it or not, the world does not owe all of you a living because you went to college.

The world doesn't owe anyone a living, regardless of educational background or lack thereof.

 

[acaTerry]

The world doesn't owe anyone a living, regardless of educational background or lack thereof.

Amen. I think if they still taught the story of the ant and the grasshopper in kindergarten, instead of how to get in touch with your feelings, there'd be a better work ethic.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I've found that most people who say you don't need a degree don't have one. I was numbered among them.

 

[BentOver]

Well those looking to get hired at Delta without a degree.... best of luck..

The non college advocates are arguing the wrong point.... Is it necessary to have a college degree to be a good pilot? Of course not....



Are your chances of getting hired at a reputable legacy carrier with a degree better.. Of course..

What guys like YIP are failing to recognize..... HR departments set the hiring standards.. Not a guy working at JUS in MI....

Don't like the playing field, go find another game....

Yes 99% is a legitimate number from a scientific poll I conducted using ALL FAA commercial pilots licenses from their website.. Just for this thread.. Because that wouldn't be a colossal waste of time.

 

[BentOver]

Maybe you've been flying too long to know what's the rest of the working world goes through...

He's a short breakdown of just a few members of my family..

Grandfather.. No college.... Factory worker

Grandmother.. No college... Worked at Sibleys, now part of Macy's

Mother... No college...bartender... Went to two year school at the age of 54..
Became LPN

Father... No college... Alcoholic/ drug addict bum dead at the age of 45

Step father... No college... Construction worker

Aunt... No college, odd jobs... After college in late 30's... Executive assistant at a prestigious university

Cousin #1... College, construction management

Cousin #2... College, register nurse

Half sister.... No college, cleans out dog kennels for barely above minimum wage
Her boyfriend, no college... Barely holds jobs as a tire changer

Myself.. Paid my way through college at ERAU ( and 2 other schools) while working full time at restaurants, night clubs etc... 767 FO and small business owner.. ( the guys I hire at just above minimum wage... No college)


Keep telling yourselves that college isn't a major avenue towards a better QOL.

It may not be the only way, but your chances are far greater with college.