Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

AA/US ISL question

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
It will roll

It will roll

It just wont be prettty.
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Posts
132
Question for anyone who has any ideas about what is likely to happen when we (hopefully) reach an ISL.

Since we hear nothing on the US side besides lawsuit briefs and legal mumbo jumbo from our "union," how likely is it that the ISL will be constructed without narrow body fences?

Specifically, I am PHL based and cannot wait to (hopefully) get down to MIA. Hopefully an ISL would not prohibit this, assuming I stay on group 2/3 aircraft. Thoughts?

It might be a bit early in the game for speculation, but I'd sure hate to see an ISL with domicile fences. Think we all expect A330/B777 fences.

Thanks!
PS - Not interested at all in East vs West vs AA drama because that mud slinging has just gotta end.
 
Not that this will carry over to the AA/US ISL, but both the DL/NW and CO/UA ISLs only had fences for certain wide bodies and for predetermined amounts of time. There was no narrowbody or base fences. If it goes to binding arbitration, one would have to assume a similar outcome based on precedence.
 
It will roll said:
Question for anyone who has any ideas about what is likely to happen when we (hopefully) reach an ISL.

Since we hear nothing on the US side besides lawsuit briefs and legal mumbo jumbo from our "union," how likely is it that the ISL will be constructed without narrow body fences?

Specifically, I am PHL based and cannot wait to (hopefully) get down to MIA. Hopefully an ISL would not prohibit this, assuming I stay on group 2/3 aircraft. Thoughts?

It might be a bit early in the game for speculation, but I'd sure hate to see an ISL with domicile fences. Think we all expect A330/B777 fences.

Thanks!
PS - Not interested at all in East vs West vs AA drama because that mud slinging has just gotta end.
Click to expand...

Obviously if this goes to arbitration (likely), it's really hard to tell what would happen. If I had to guess though, I would think the only fences would be on the widebodies and not base specific. Once the operations are combined, I'm sure the company wants the ability to put planes wherever they want. Perhaps they may want 787's in PHL and A-350's in DFW. Who knows... Base restrictions would make that harder, so I imagine it would be aircraft specific and probably only the widebodies... So there is my guess... :)
 
There was also a rumor pre-DOJ's interference that some domiciles were to be double-crewed (ex. AA/US in PHL, MIA, DFW, CLT etc.). Not sure what happened to that idea...
 
It will roll said:
Question for anyone who has any ideas about what is likely to happen when we (hopefully) reach an ISL.

Since we hear nothing on the US side besides lawsuit briefs and legal mumbo jumbo from our "union," how likely is it that the ISL will be constructed without narrow body fences?

Specifically, I am PHL based and cannot wait to (hopefully) get down to MIA. Hopefully an ISL would not prohibit this, assuming I stay on group 2/3 aircraft. Thoughts?

It might be a bit early in the game for speculation, but I'd sure hate to see an ISL with domicile fences. Think we all expect A330/B777 fences.

Thanks!
PS - Not interested at all in East vs West vs AA drama because that mud slinging has just gotta end.
Click to expand...

I'd be very surprised if there were narrow body fences. However I have heard rumors that APA both wants nb fences and doesn't want them. Who knows. Lifting fences does benefit AA bc the percentage of retirements is greater at US vs AA for the next few years.
 
We all wait for the NMB to rule and then APA will show their cards. The majority will get all they can within the DFR threshold. I think I already saw this movie in 2008.
 
When is the contract expected to be done? Is this going to drag out like UAL?
 
The SOC is scheduled to be completed by April 2015. As far as I know, a MOAB will occur next summer with no base or narrow body fences. We shall see if the New American will maintain the current US view that training is a fixed cost therefore allowing crews to move to the base and aircraft they so chose and can hold. So, I think you'll have a chance to move to the 73 in MIA next year.
 
And no Nic. Period. It is deader than dead.
West pilots will be feathered in with the third listers. you heard it here first
 
Don't forget, binding arbitration is not really binding if it doesn't go your way. As long as you have the majority on your side - oh wait . . .
 
As far as I know, a MOAB will occur next summer with no base or narrow body fences
Pave Driver


Where did you get this little nugget. I have not heard of that happening
at all let alone summer 2015.............?????
 
IBNAV8R said:
Don't forget, binding arbitration is not really binding if it doesn't go your way. As long as you have the majority on your side - oh wait . . .
Click to expand...


Bitching Incessantly is only Bitching Incessantly when the contract changes and you decide to continue bitching that you don't have the old contract. :D Carry on!
 
Sorry, failed at cut and pasting on an iPad. I tried to paste an article about the USAir side of the merger not being happy, any way........USAPA has been, everyone agrees, dysfunctional to say the least. Because of USAPA, the USAir pilots have gone into this merger with one hand tied behind their back. Kind of sad what the long term legacy of USAPA will be.
 
Last edited:
I'll start. 1. They have shown that integrity and your word doesn't count if you don't get your way. 2. The ********************ty wages and workrules have hampered the ability of other pilot groups to make large improvements to their ch11 contracts.


Dan Roman said:
Sorry, failed at cut and pasting on an iPad. I tried to paste an article about the USAir side of the merger not being happy, any way........USAPA has been, everyone agrees, dysfunctional to say the least. Because of USAPA, the USAir pilots have gone into this merger with one hand tied behind their back. Kind of sad what the long term legacy of USAPA will be.
Click to expand...

 
Cobraair75drvr said:
I'll start. 1. They have shown that integrity and your word doesn't count if you don't get your way. 2. The ********************ty wages and workrules have hampered the ability of other pilot groups to make large improvements to their ch11 contracts.



[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true westicle. Jeez you little girls wine a lot
 
St. Nic said:
And no Nic. Period. It is deader than dead.
West pilots will be feathered in with the third listers. you heard it here first
Click to expand...

What a coward. When the intergration comes, nicky the dicky here will vanish like a fart in the wind. You heard it here first.
 
Usapa should soon become a footnote in history for all that is wrong with organized labor and just another chapter in the sad careers of former East pilots who think the world owes them. The east/ west is still in play no matter what the village idiots say here.
 
Can't we all just get along?
Nevermind..
 
Gee Dan, why are you concerned about their long term legacy? They aren't. Do you think Bernie Madoff or Frank Lorenzo worries about anything more than preserving the smug satisfaction of what they stole and the lives they ruined? Steve Bradford and Mike Cleary are no different nor are the 3500 enablers that helped them.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Gee Dan, why are you concerned about their long term legacy? They aren't. Do you think Bernie Madoff or Frank Lorenzo worries about anything more than preserving the smug satisfaction of what they stole and the lives they ruined? Steve Bradford and Mike Cleary are no different nor are the 3500 enablers that helped them.
Click to expand...

That is quite a stretch to compare Bernie Madoff ( a convicted felon) and Frank Lorenzo ( union buster) to a legitimate certified collective bargaining agent.

I guess you could call some of your fellow West brothers some good things since they might have more in common with your examples rather than Steve Bradford. IMHO

Metrojet
 
Metrojet said:
That is quite a stretch to compare Bernie Madoff ( a convicted felon) and Frank Lorenzo ( union buster) to a legitimate certified collective bargaining agent.

I guess you could call some of your fellow West brothers some good things since they might have more in common with your examples rather than Steve Bradford. IMHO

Metrojet
Click to expand...

The louder the loser whines, the greater the satisfaction of the prevailing litigant. :D
 
There will ALWAYS be questions about USAPA and their pilots.

Always
 
What happens with new hires regarding fences? If you were hired on the usair side next month does that mean you would most likely not be able to fly a 777 until the fence is down or is it only for pilots that were on property at merger date?
 
i fly boxes said:
What happens with new hires regarding fences? If you were hired on the usair side next month does that mean you would most likely not be able to fly a 777 until the fence is down or is it only for pilots that were on property at merger date?
Click to expand...

If there is a fence, that's exactly what that means. There are two ways around a fence. The first is when the time expires and there is no more fence. The second is when the positions on the bottom go un-filled on a base bid. That also effectively brings down a fence.

So the pilot hired next month on the US Airways side will have to wait until the fence expires before he can bid the 777. Example: Let's say the fence is 5 years long and we achieve total pilot integration in 2015. The fence goes until 2020. So that's how long he would have to wait. However if a bid in 2017 leaves the bottom 5 positions un-filled with pre-merger AA pilots, it would open up to a system wide availability, effectively bringing down the fence on that particular aircraft for that particular position (FO). I'm quite confident the fence on the Captain side will last the duration of the time chosen for the fence as I doubt you would ever see 777 Captain slots go un-filled...
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom