FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[ProFracPilot]

Are you one of the antiunion crowd? Spreading false information in the hopes of a decert vote? Don't be a tool. Here's how it really works. Single carrier petition, NMB ruling in the affirmative, representation vote elects the 1108 as bargaining agent, ALL FLEXJET PILOTS REPRESENTED BY THE 1108 AND PROTECTED BY DFR. Now the union's internal merger process kicks in and we merge lists accordingly. The vote for representation precedes the merger of the lists. I'm glad I could help you pull your head out of your ass before you suffocated.

Until proven otherwise, I stand by my post as a possible scenario. Yours, on the other hand, smacks more of vile hubris and wishful thinking than any kind of deep-seeded conviction.

 

[SDCFI]

Until proven otherwise, I stand by my post as a possible scenario. Yours, on the other hand, smacks more of vile hubris and wishful thinking than any kind of deep-seeded conviction.

Everything I've heard from people in the know jives with what doh said. IF there's a petition for single carrier, and then IF it is approved the two combined groups would vote for 3 options. A) Continue rep by the IBT under a brand new negotiated contract, status quo while said contract is formed. B) New in-house union, new contract, again status quo until it's in place. C) No union for all, presumably Flexjet pilot agreements remain in force, FO who knows. Nowhere have I heard a staple of either group being a possibility and that would be the quickest way to burn this place down altogether.

I know the Flex pilots won't ask for single carrier so that leaves 1108 or more than 50% of the FO pilots. The union prob won't ask because to stay in power they'd need more than 50% of the combined group's vote and that's not a very good bet. So that pretty much leaves the FO pilots who want to get rid of the IBT, could they get more than 50%?

 

[luckydog]

PFP is headed the right direction. After reading a few summaries and the some of the actual RLA, I'm think my initial assessment of FJ not being an air carrier is incorrect.

As pilots we all focus on Flex not having a 135 certificate, I think that is a very narrow definition. I'm sure it will take a table surrounded by lawyers billing thousands of $/hour to NOT settle the issue and let it wind up in front of a court and later appeals courts. There is more riding on this than just a couple of hundred pilots flying little planes.

I'm sure there are contradicting definitions in the vast verbiage of government regulations but consider this regarding airport operations/safety:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/?p1=definitions

Until proven otherwise, I stand by my post as a possible scenario. Yours, on the other hand, smacks more of vile hubris and wishful thinking than any kind of deep-seeded conviction.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

.....

 

[dime line]

You guys just make this stuff up as you go along, hu?

ahhhhhh the world is coming to an end.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Everybody is an expert now. Good to hear Ricci is shopping for a new house because six is just not enough..........................

 

[993_Pilot]

Everything I've heard from people in the know jives with what doh said. IF there's a petition for single carrier, and then IF it is approved the two combined groups would vote for 3 options. A) Continue rep by the IBT under a brand new negotiated contract, status quo while said contract is formed. B) New in-house union, new contract, again status quo until it's in place. C) No union for all, presumably Flexjet pilot agreements remain in force, FO who knows. Nowhere have I heard a staple of either group being a possibility and that would be the quickest way to burn this place down altogether.

I know the Flex pilots won't ask for single carrier so that leaves 1108 or more than 50% of the FO pilots. The union prob won't ask because to stay in power they'd need more than 50% of the combined group's vote and that's not a very good bet. So that pretty much leaves the FO pilots who want to get rid of the IBT, could they get more than 50%?

Seek more advice, what you have heard is wrong... if A) happens, we continue with the same contract, until it is amended. (however, that is coming up very quickly) B) any New "In-House" Union won't even get on the ballot, unless they are able to get 50%+1, before the representation vote. I also seriously doubt that anyone in the IBT leadership wants to staple the Flex pilots to the bottom, it wouldn't be in their long term interest.

To answer the last question, I doubt they have anywhere near 50%, but they do have a few loud mouths who pretend to have the support of the majority. If it were actually true, the IBT would already be out.

 

[Fresh Air]

As things now stand, I do not envision a single carrier petition happening anytime soon. As in years, after the next FO contract is signed.

Kenn stated in his message that he wanted the consolidation of pilot groups to happen "as soon as possible". At this time, our union has absolutely no incentive to give him what he wants.

If Kenn would care to send his minions to the negotiating table and hash out a LOA raising FO pay scales and benefits to mirror Flex, then things would be different.

Until then, he can just cool his heels.

 

[dime line]

Unless IBT launches informational meetings they will not hold on. And if they don't and get decertified it will be there own fault. They need to communicate now more than ever. To many idiots at flops believe in there in house to further there own personal positions. Welcome back SFO program !!!

About the only correct statement here, well done

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So far all of the FO crews I have talked to on the road have been very eager to share their views unions and KR. Here is what I have found from the 30 or so pilots I have had the time to really chat with:

Only 3 of the 30 were pro-IBT
Only 10 or so were pro-UPFO
17 were very anti-IBT and feel they are a roadblock to the future of FO

I asked each pilot why they felt the way they did. The IBT folks all said because they needed "protection". If we don't join the IBT we are all gonna be screwed. None of the had specifics, but basically said you'll see.

The UPFO group was basically anti IBT and before FJ came along thought that was their only other option. All the care about is getting away from the IBT and improving their quality if life.

The anti IBT folks were mostly that way before the FJ thing came along. It has only strengthened their views. They like KR and believe he will take care of them if the IBT goes away. They feel the pilots that stare their views are not organized enough to oust the IBT as it stands. They are very frustrated with the IBT and the "thugs" (their words not mine) that run it.

I hope in 18 months we can all look backin amazement at how different our pay and benefits were. The IBT folks on here will just tell you that KR will bring FJ down to FO. Leadership by intimidation and fear is not leadership.

Good luck to us all.

 

[Fresh Air]

So far all of the FO crews I have talked to on the road have been very eager to share their views unions and KR. Here is what I have found from the 30 or so pilots I have had the time to really chat with:

Only 3 of the 30 were pro-IBT
Only 10 or so were pro-UPFO
17 were very anti-IBT and feel they are a roadblock to the future of FO

As if anyone on here is gullible enough to believe made-up statistics posted by an obvious anti-union fudster.

Fortunately, nobody on here needs to believe anything that any of us say on this forum. Time and the voting record will tell.

 

[el raton]

As if anyone on here is gullible enough to believe made-up statistics posted by an obvious anti-union fudster.

Fortunately, nobody on here needs to believe anything that any of us say on this forum. Time and the voting record will tell.

Is there more support for the IBT among the former RTA pilots than there is among the original Corporate wings/FO pilots?

 

[slowtation capt]

They like KR and believe he will take care of them if the IBT goes away.
Good luck to us all.

KR can take care of us right now! KR can go to the union and say, here is an LOA raising all Flops pay to Flex pay. Do you think the union would say no? KR can go to HR right now and say re-instate the 401K match. We all ready language in the contract for when it comes back, and no the union did not take it, the company did. KR can do anything he wants that would benefit the pilot group simply by producing a LOA and if it is for the benefits of the pilots I know for a matter of fact, so far as to give up my first born, that the IBT would not turn it done.

KR can do a lot for the pilots, but he is hiding behind the stigma of the big bad IBT won't let me.
They won't let him do something that will hurt the pilot group.

 

[GooseHZ]

Slow is right on the money.

All of us Flying for DAC have to ask ourselves a question.

Do we want a legally Binding CBA facilitated by a Strong fully funded Union or a one page unenforceable document from Management?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

As if anyone on here is gullible enough to believe made-up statistics posted by an obvious anti-union fudster.

Fortunately, nobody on here needs to believe anything that any of us say on this forum. Time and the voting record will tell.

What vote are you referring to? Single carrier? Explain to me how a single carrier vote is going to happen when your beloved IBT doesn't want it?

 

[dime line]

What vote are you referring to? Single carrier? Explain to me how a single carrier vote is going to happen when your beloved IBT doesn't want it?

In your expert opinion, why doesn't the IBT want the vote, they know it has to happen

 

[Seahawk]

Vote for single carrier or vote to decertify. It will be 5 years before you see another contract. Get over it!

 

[doh]

I would hope management are smarter than to fight a war like that.

 

[Seahawk]

Management? It's your "House of Cards" and you have a way out. It's your call.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Seahawk – your photo reminds me of one of our former VP’s of self-importance. A former UAL scab, his nickname was Babbling Bob. [Then again, how can anyone really be a former scab: once a scab…]

Pretty sure only the 1108 can file for single carrier – no matter how many times special ed & his friends try, so I’d look for that filing no sooner than when the 1108 is good ‘n ready.