DOJ stipulates Love Field gates auctioned only to LCC's

[HowardBorden]

I brought this up in another thread and I'd like to hear others opinions about what airlines they think will be allowed to bid in the Love Field gate auction.

As alleged in the Complaint, this merger would combine two of the four major 'legacy' carriers, leaving "New American," Delta, and United as the remaining major national network carriers.....In contrast to the legacy carriers, other carriers (hereinafter referred to as 'low-cost carriers' or 'LCCs'), such as Southwest Airlines ('Southwest'), JetBlue Airways ('JetBlue'), Virgin America, Frontier Airlines, and Spirit Airlines, have less extensive networks and tend to focus more heavily on lower fares and other value propositions.

The Divestiture of Gates at Other Key Airports

Section IV. of the Proposed Final Judgment requires that New American will transfer, consistent with the practices of the relevant airport authority, to another carrier or carriers approved by DOJ in its sole discretion, all rights and interests in two gates......The proposed Final Judgment also includes divestitures at Dallas Love Field, an airport near American's largest hub at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport ('DFW'). Gates at DFW are readily available, but Love Field, which is much closer to downtown Dallas, is highly gate-constrained. The divestitures will position a low-cost carrier to provide vigorous competition to the New American's nonstop and connecting service out of DFW.


http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f301600/301618.pdf

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Cue in Genital's drivel in 3....2....1.....

 

[General Lee]

I brought this up in another thread and I'd like to hear others opinions about what airlines they think will be allowed to bid in the Love Field gate auction.

As alleged in the Complaint, this merger would combine two of the four major 'legacy' carriers, leaving "New American," Delta, and United as the remaining major national network carriers.....In contrast to the legacy carriers, other carriers (hereinafter referred to as 'low-cost carriers' or 'LCCs'), such as Southwest Airlines ('Southwest'), JetBlue Airways ('JetBlue'), Virgin America, Frontier Airlines, and Spirit Airlines, have less extensive networks and tend to focus more heavily on lower fares and other value propositions.

The Divestiture of Gates at Other Key Airports

Section IV. of the Proposed Final Judgment requires that New American will transfer, consistent with the practices of the relevant airport authority, to another carrier or carriers approved by DOJ in its sole discretion, all rights and interests in two gates......The proposed Final Judgment also includes divestitures at Dallas Love Field, an airport near American's largest hub at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport ('DFW'). Gates at DFW are readily available, but Love Field, which is much closer to downtown Dallas, is highly gate-constrained. The divestitures will position a low-cost carrier to provide vigorous competition to the New American's nonstop and connecting service out of DFW.


http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f301600/301618.pdf

Question: what happens if no LCC wants the gates? Spirit already has a sizable base at DFW. JB may not want to move their very limited ops from DFW, and same with VA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

Funny, DL is already using some of those gates. I guess the Cornies bought a lot of pizzas this year.... Because we know they are the TRUE LCC....Nope. We'll see how many gates DL gets.

Hmmmm. Assistant Attorney General who said what? DL is currently using some of those gates. I doubt they would lose those, and seeing how many slots SWA got at DCA, I'd say there is a good chance to gain gates at DAL. We'll just have to see...

So, has the final decision been handed down yet? Wow Howie, you sure are certain, yet it hasn't been decided. Other LCCs may not want the gates. You never know....

Question: what happens if no LCC wants the gates?

My God, you simply have no ability to sit back and let a discussion ensue! You simply must show your all knowing wisdom. Well, you are just flat out wrong on this one. Your all knowing omnipresent intellect is flat out wrong. Delta will not gain ownership of the Love field gates. I have shown you exactly what the governing body concerned with the divestiture of the gates has said, and it has said Delta will not be allowed to bid on those gates.

Another LCC, as defined by the DOJ IS interested in those gates:
Southwest does desire the two Love Field gates that American Airlines must surrender as part of a U.S. Department of Justice lawsuit settlement. Kelly's argument: Southwest can't enter the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport market (without surrendering Love Field gates), and therefore Love Field is the only place in North Texas where it can grow.

I am prognosticating into the future and claiming you, with your superior industry knowledge, are flat out wrong; incorrect; erroneous; imprecise and inaccurate. Delta will NOT gain ownership of the gates being divested at Love field.

As a matter of fact I'm willing to place a wager with you and I will give you 2-1 odds. My assertion is that the two gates divested at Dallas Love will most certainly NOT be obtained by Delta Air Lines. If Delta does indeed obtain ownership of the Love gates I will refrain from posting on this sight for 2 months (60 days.) If Delta does not obtain the gates divested from Love field I will ask you to refrain from posting on this sight for 1 month (30 days.)

You have made it quite clear that your industry knowledge is unsurpassed, when you state that "I'd say there is a good chance to gain gates at DAL." , I unequivocally disagree and assert your premise is absolutely false and you are remarkably misinformed. Please accept this wager and prove me wrong!

 

[waveflyer]

Not the first time he's been wrong.
Song. Outsourcing. Etc-
Why feed a sellout?

Think we'll get the gates Howard?
That would be good news but I don't know all the love field restrictions once wright is gone- I understand there are still some

 

[HowardBorden]

Not the first time he's been wrong.
Song. Outsourcing. Etc-
Why feed a sellout?

Think we'll get the gates Howard?
That would be good news but I don't know all the love field restrictions once wright is gone- I understand there are still some

Actually I don't know who will get the gates, but the DOJ has been quite clear that a legacy carrier will not obtain those gates. Glee is bound and determined to assert his opinion that Delta is in the running which I say is utter crap. I could be wrong and I have given the General ample opportunity to shut me up for 2 month's if Delta receives the gates but that will necessitate him to comply with radio silence for a month if he is wrong, I can't see him agreeing to the wager.

 

[General Lee]

Actually I don't know who will get the gates, but the DOJ has been quite clear that a legacy carrier will not obtain those gates. Glee is bound and determined to assert his opinion that Delta is in the running which I say is utter crap. I could be wrong and I have given the General ample opportunity to shut me up for 2 month's if Delta receives the gates but that will necessitate him to comply with radio silence for a month if he is wrong, I can't see him agreeing to the wager.

You sure seem certain, and now you admit you're not. I just said it isn't over yet, and the DOj likes to change it's mind.... We'll see Howie....


Bye Bye--- General Lee


PS--Wave, PFT hurts the industry, and college helps

 

[Bringupthebird]

What if the DOJ decides they would rather see New Entrants rather than merely LCCs at whatever airport they deem to have control over?

 

[Flopgut]

I said it a long time ago. Southwest, who already controls 95% of Love, will get these gates.

 

[freightdogfred]

I said it a long time ago. Southwest, who already controls 95% of Love, will get these gates.

Only fair, after having that Wright amendment rammed down their throat for so many years.

 

[Flopgut]

Only fair, after having that Wright amendment rammed down their throat for so many years.

American handed SWA a big loss on the WA a few years ago. So the DOJ is retaliating. Anderson has been positioning for the Love gates because he knew SWA was pulling the strings. His goal is to see this backfire on SWA, and I think it will. SWA will get these and have nearly 100% of Love, until someone sues... Be lucky to keep half of it. Not to mention no longer be the favorite recipient of what merged legacies have to forfeit.

 

[Flyby1206]

I said it a long time ago. Southwest, who already controls 95% of Love, will get these gates.

I wouldn't be surprised, but damn that seems to go against the reasoning behind making AA give up gates at DAL in the first place. VX has stated publicly that they are interested in the DAL gates, and I wouldn't be surprised if JB or some others jumped in.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You sure seem certain, and now you admit you're not. I just said it isn't over yet, and the DOj likes to change it's mind.... We'll see Howie....


Bye Bye--- General Lee


PS--Wave, PFT hurts the industry, and college helps

Good God, knucklehead, did you even read what he wrote?

He said he was certain that Delta would not get the gates, not that Southwest would get them. Southwest only entered the discussion because then you asked, "what if no LCC wanted them." He responded that at least on LCC (as defined by the DOJ) did want them. He has never equivocated on his belief that Delta would not get them.

So, anyway, you danced around, but never actually said whether you accept the bet, General. Well, DO you accept? Do you agree to bet two months off FI for Howard, if Delta gets the Love Field gates, versus a month off FI for you, if Delta fails in getting those gates? It's a pretty simple question. It's time to put your money where your mouth is. Or rather, it's time to put your post count where your mouth is.

Tell us, General, yes or no on the bet.

Bubba

P.S. After you tell us if you accept the bet or not, you can tell us how Southwest's hiring minimum of requiring a type rating has "hurt the industry," and how Delta's hiring minimum of requiring a 4-year degree in anything has "helped the industry."

 

[HowardBorden]

You sure seem certain, and now you admit you're not. I just said it isn't over yet, and the DOj likes to change it's mind.... We'll see Howie....

Wrong again. I have never said I know who will win an auction for the Love gates, I have stated unequivocally I know who won't win them. You have claimed we need to wait and see, I have claimed we don't. So, it's time to put up or (literally) shut up. Here is a simple question for you will you accept the wager? How about a simple one word yes or no answer.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PS--Wave, PFT hurts the industry, and college helps

While it is possible you are using a pirate version MS Flt Sim, that you didn't pay for, it is certain your short bus will not take you to college.

 

[RJLoser]

Who's an LCC anymore? Checked tickets for my parents a while ago. LCC's were just as, if not more expensive.

 

[waveflyer]

We'll see Howie....


Bye Bye--- General Lee

So you are taking the bet?

A month off if you're wrong?

What's funny is this is the equivalent of a $5 bet for any other normal person

I've done it and I'm the second biggest troll on here-
Yet for you it's a heroine you can't live a week without...

You'd start to get respect if you took and honored a bet like this

 

[Bringupthebird]

Only fair, after having that Wright amendment rammed down their throat for so many years.

Was Southwest prohibited from starting an operation at DFW, or are they just stubborn?

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Here's how I think this could play out. Howard is right that the gates at Love Field have to go to an LCC. I think WN will put in an enormous bid for these gates as they are the more valuable to them than they are to any other LCC. If WN were to win the bid, I could see DOJ telling them that they have to give up one of the two gates to VX or B6. So, WN ends up with 17, UA 2, and VX or B6 1. If NEITHER carrier is interested in moving their current ops over from DFW (VERY POSSIBLE), then WN get both of AA's gates and they call it a day.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Good God, knucklehead, did you even read what he wrote?

He said he was certain that Delta would not get the gates, not that Southwest would get them. Southwest only entered the discussion because then you asked, "what if no LCC wanted them." He responded that at least on LCC (as defined by the DOJ) did want them. He has never equivocated on his belief that Delta would not get them.

So, anyway, you danced around, but never actually said whether you accept the bet, General. Well, DO you accept? Do you agree to bet two months off FI for Howard, if Delta gets the Love Field gates, versus a month off FI for you, if Delta fails in getting those gates? It's a pretty simple question. It's time to put your money where your mouth is. Or rather, it's time to put your post count where your mouth is.

Tell us, General, yes or no on the bet.

Bubba

P.S. After you tell us if you accept the bet or not, you can tell us how Southwest's hiring minimum of requiring a type rating has "hurt the industry," and how Delta's hiring minimum of requiring a 4-year degree in anything has "helped the industry."

General Lee will not take that bet. He will come with his usual lame cop out, then insult you, me, and everyone else here with his usual juvenile tripe.

General Lee is not a pilot, he is a pimple faced, booger eating forum troll. But of course you all know that already All of his knowledge about the airlines comes from reading press releases and obsessively crawling the 5 or so aviation forums. He has been protected by the owners of this site for almost 15 years now, despite constant TOS violations, because he drives up the hit count and increases their ad revenue.

The best way to get rid of this idiot is for everyone to put him on ignore. Don't bet him. Don't goad him. Just ignore him. Let him post 972 more lame press releases to get his 20K posts.

I'd love to apologize, on behalf of all REAL Delta pilots, for his behavior in posing as a Delta pilot and bring a bad image to us, but I won't because after all, most people here know he's not a real pilot.