Delta needs to pay pilots more

[race#53]

This was on the other forum;
Working the same number of days, the average SWA Captain made a little over $50K more in total compensation than I would have made as an MD-88/90 Captain at Delta.

Or put another way, for the year I worked 24 days MORE than the average SWA Captain, and I made $14,000 LESS.

With all the money they have laying around there is no excuse for the above.

 

[densoo]

This was on the other forum;
Working the same number of days, the average SWA Captain made a little over $50K more in total compensation than I would have made as an MD-88/90 Captain at Delta.

Or put another way, for the year I worked 24 days MORE than the average SWA Captain, and I made $14,000 LESS.

With all the money they have laying around there is no excuse for the above.

The SWA pilot typically flies about 30% more hours than the DAL pilot in a year so the greater pay is a no brainer. More days off is just smart.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/...and CoPilot Average Block Hours per Month.htm

 

[redflyer65]

I agree. I think part of the problem might be the Rig, or the lack there of. There are plenty of Delta four days that pay 21. The min for a four day at SW is 26.....and thats the min. Done typically pay 27-28. Raising that would help, at least with need to make up more days of working.

 

[General Lee]

This was on the other forum;
Working the same number of days, the average SWA Captain made a little over $50K more in total compensation than I would have made as an MD-88/90 Captain at Delta.

Or put another way, for the year I worked 24 days MORE than the average SWA Captain, and I made $14,000 LESS.

With all the money they have laying around there is no excuse for the above.

The average SWA pilot flies 10 times more legs per year, and ends up in a dump like LBB and MAF. The DL pilots are in the middle of a 3 year contract that gave a 20% raise, and the company is making quarterly profits in the billions. So, there is a great possibility that DL narrow body pilots will pass the SWA pilots soon. I'm pretty sure most of the Widebody pilots already make more per hour, and with huge retirements coming at DL and not SWA, double pay overtime flying (greenslips) will be raining down.

Throw in the fact that SWA's boss seems to want to get back to the LCC roots too, it may be tough for them to keep making huge gains. I hope they do, but it doesn't sound like the boss will be willing.

First year pay is also higher at DL, and you don't have to pay for a type rating if you were lacking one prior to applying. Next, DL pays more depending on the size plane you fly. SWA will have only 737s eventually, which means no higher pay scales, and complete boredom after about 5 years. Could you fly multiple leg days for 30 years in ONE plane forever? That would be gawd awful. They are now excited to see San Juan! (If they can find it, the AT guys who got demoted to come over (why again???) can show the Cornies...)

I'll take fewer legs per day, the ability to fly to interesting places, and variety in aircraft and trips over a few extra thousands dollars. Hey, I'll make that up with one greenslip to Rio anyway. It's fantastic!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

As an example..

DL 12yr CA on 75/767 - 213/hr X 21hr four day = 4473

SW 12yr CA on 737 - 190/trip X 26trip four day = 4940.

So $500 dollars extra to be gone the same amount of time. There seems to be a Rig issue at DL. The only other thought is that the SW trips are more efficient with less 1.5hr ground sits in the Delta hubs. Either way a better Rig would help.

 

[Guppiedriver]

You would have to look at TAFB to figure out if they were gone for the same amount of time. We have some of those high yield, 26 hour trips...I hate them. Plus they are not commutable.

 

[General Lee]

Red-liar at SWA thinks all DL 757/767 trips are 4 days, worth 21 hours. That is not the case. There are 1 day turns worth 8 hours. There are 12 day trips to Asia worth 76 hours. There is everything in between, with great layovers thrown in too. Red-liar is jealous, and paid for his training due to his airline's lame hiring practices.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

You would have to look at TAFB to figure out if they were gone for the same amount of time. We have some of those high yield, 26 hour trips...I hate them. Plus they are not commutable.

FYI, I won't do a 4 day that pays 26, if its not 30+, I'm not doing it! Yes, the 34 pay ones are ball breakers but the pay is nice. The 26 ones are not worth my time. And BTW, commutable trips on both ends are rare on our end. I may consider a 26 TFP 4 day if it showed late and got done early but I think I've seen one in 7 years.

And before the Village idiot chimes in, I NEVER do more than 4 legs a day and usually it's only 3. The last time I did the 34 TFP it was an AUS-SJC turn for the middle two days plus the two legs out and two legs back to domicile.

Later,
KBB

 

[race#53]

i have to agree with the General about the spice of life...reminds me of a biplane i sold to a jet pilot. He was just about to land the jet in Chicago when he turns to the FO and says " i cant wait to get back so i can go flying". The FO said "what are we doing now?"

 

[redflyer65]

FYI, I won't do a 4 day that pays 26, if its not 30+, I'm not doing it! Yes, the 34 pay ones are ball breakers but the pay is nice. The 26 ones are not worth my time. And BTW, commutable trips on both ends are rare on our end. I may consider a 26 TFP 4 day if it showed late and got done early but I think I've seen one in 7 years.

And before the Village idiot chimes in, I NEVER do more than 4 legs a day and usually it's only 3. The last time I did the 34 TFP it was an AUS-SJC turn for the middle two days plus the two legs out and two legs back to domicile.

Later,
KBB

Your exactly right Bourbn.

The point being that the MIN four day at SW is 26. Apparently at DL they don't have a good Rig.

I don't do 26 trip four days either. I want 28-30+ (which is available), but in the end the Rig of 26 protects you from being out there doing a four day for a pay of 21 like DL.

Again, look at the pay discrepancy on a SW vs DL min four day. Not good. I hope DL can get that Rig back up. I'm wondering if it got sliced and diced during bankruptcy because I don't remember it being that bad before.

Would you rather be efficient and get paid accordingly, or do a couple of turns in the MD-80 with a 2 hour sit in ATL twice, when in the end you are NOT be paid for your time. That's what is really happening here. A good Rig protects against this kind of BS.

 

[redflyer65]

i have to agree with the General about the spice of life...reminds me of a biplane i sold to a jet pilot. He was just about to land the jet in Chicago when he turns to the FO and says " i cant wait to get back so i can go flying". The FO said "what are we doing now?"

Your question is about pay discrepancy. The General I guess decided to throw a bunch of poo against the wall and see what would stick. (that's what he always does). And I'm sure he started talking about everything BUT your question.

Spice of life as you say is a personal choice. I took stab at your pay question, and I don't see any evidence that I'm not right. The DL pay Rig (if even existent), must be bad.

Numbers don't lie.

 

[General Lee]

What Red-Liar continually forgets is that DL and SWA are different types of carriers. He brings up "Rig", but forgets that I can fly an 11 hour leg as an INTL pilot, he can't as a domestic only pilot. Variety allows me to choose if I want to do long haul, or do a turn to San Juan from ATL. He is oblivious and totally jealous at the same time. Variety Red, it's the spice of life. I was in Rome, Italy twice last month for wonderful 48 hour layovers, and this month I go to Buenos Aires, Stuttgart, and a couple domestic layovers. You can't beat that variety. But you are right Red , numbers don't lie, and a 737 type rating costs at least $7K when you have to pay for it yourself. Isn't that about right, Red?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

I'm home for 23 nights a month GL

I like that and want no part of multiple international destinations a month.

Hence my desire to work at SWA-

I also don't care if I never go to training again on another airplane.

You continually (cut & paste, stuck on repeat) bring up traits about SWA as if they were negatives, which are positives to me.

That said- our mission statement: "the WORLD's most loved, most flown carrier"

If we don't have wide bodies in 5 years GL, I'll stop posting forever

So we'll have that "choice" and a MUCH funner place to work

 

[redflyer65]

What Red-Liar continually forgets is that DL and SWA are different types of carriers. He brings up "Rig", but forgets that I can fly an 11 hour leg as an INTL pilot, he can't as a domestic only pilot. Variety allows me to choose if I want to do long haul, or do a turn to San Juan from ATL. He is oblivious and totally jealous at the same time. Variety Red, it's the spice of life. I was in Rome, Italy twice last month for wonderful 48 hour layovers, and this month I go to Buenos Aires, Stuttgart, and a couple domestic layovers. You can't beat that variety. But you are right Red , numbers don't lie, and a 737 type rating costs at least $7K when you have to pay for it yourself. Isn't that about right, Red?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Haha. Your hilarious General. Thanks for the comedy as usual.

What does overnights have to do with pay?

Why do have to get sooooo far off topic and start talking about Lubbock and type ratings? Why? I'll tell you why...because you can't even come close to debating an actual topic. Like pay Rigs.

Now once again, Gen. Stay on topic with me here.....what is the Delta pay Rig?

You must really be self conscious to not be able to debate a valid point that one of YOUR pilots throws up in a question....and then jump to

1. Two different airlines (really, that's a mind boggling statement)

2. Overnight differences (not part of the original question, and it doesn't matter to me....much to your dismay I guess)

3. Something about an 11 hour leg (again, nothing to do with the topic)

4. Southwest type rating (nothing to do with the topic, should I bring up the DL college requirement? Why would I?)

You actually brought up the word RIG, then never explained anything about it......as a matter of fact, you ran away from the topic and went down at least four different roads that had nothing to do about what was being discussed. Schizophrenic much General? .....and this is what makes you look like such a Village Idiot.

Why don't you try a cognizant answer this time Gen? I know you can do it!

 

[waveflyer]

Good point

General, will you please state for the lurkers what delta's rigs are?

 

[General Lee]

I'm home for 23 nights a month GL

I like that and want no part of multiple international destinations a month.

Hence my desire to work at SWA-

I also don't care if I never go to training again on another airplane.

You continually (cut & paste, stuck on repeat) bring up traits about SWA as if they were negatives, which are positives to me.

That said- our mission statement: "the WORLD's most loved, most flown carrier"

If we don't have wide bodies in 5 years GL, I'll stop posting forever

So we'll have that "choice" and a MUCH funner place to work

Wave,

I can do turns to San Juan or St Thomas from ATL and be home every night. I actually like "going places" far away and eating local foods and hearing different languages. But, you and Red now can do the same thanks to your company starting Newark service a couple years ago. Not really the same, Wave.... Your company's 5 leg days across the nation sound very boring, and at the same time exhausting. That will eat away at your brain eventually. The older you get, the fewer legs you want to do. Unfortunately, your super productive trips mean "many legs", and that stinks. Enjoy it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Haha. Your hilarious General. Thanks for the comedy as usual.

What does overnights have to do with pay?

Why do have to get sooooo far off topic and start talking about Lubbock and type ratings? Why? I'll tell you why...because you can't even come close to debating an actual topic. Like pay Rigs.

Now once again, Gen. Stay on topic with me here.....what is the Delta pay Rig?

You must really be self conscious to not be able to debate a valid point that one of YOUR pilots throws up in a question....and then jump to

1. Two different airlines (really, that's a mind boggling statement)

2. Overnight differences (not part of the original question, and it doesn't matter to me....much to your dismay I guess)

3. Something about an 11 hour leg (again, nothing to do with the topic)

4. Southwest type rating (nothing to do with the topic, should I bring up the DL college requirement? Why would I?)

You actually brought up the word RIG, then never explained anything about it......as a matter of fact, you ran away from the topic and went down at least four different roads that had nothing to do about what was being discussed. Schizophrenic much General? .....and this is what makes you look like such a Village Idiot.

Why don't you try a cognizant answer this time Gen? I know you can do it!

Red, I thought you had me on IGNORE??? Ahahahaha.

Well, the DL pilot's Duty Period Average(DPA) is 5:15, for normal duty periods. DH only duty periods don't count. The trip rig is 1 for 3.5, and is usually the highest rig for long international trips or low block trips. Min trip pay for a 3 day trip that has a DI prior to 9pm local on day one is 13:30.(mainly ending with an allnighter on day 3) The Duty Rig is 1 for 2.

I'm pretty sure that is right, but remember Red, I usually fly 2 leg 3 days to Europe, and 4 day trips to S. America. There are other trips out there, mainly West Coast, that do Asia and can be as long as 12-14 days, but pay up to 82 hours, all with INTL override and INTL per diem. Variety Red and Wave, it's FANTASTIC.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ROSWELL41]

The General talks about his trips like they're a big vacation. I'll take the airline job that keeps me home every night. It's a lot easier to have a life!

 

[waveflyer]

Me too-
He's just pissed SWA pilots like their life

I'm sure every cat hanging out in the regionals would take either carrier but he continues to cut and paste

 

[General Lee]

The General talks about his trips like they're a big vacation. I'll take the airline job that keeps me home every night. It's a lot easier to have a life!

You mean like doing turns to San Juan, St Thomas, Phoenix, and Salt Lake from ATL? Then DL is for you! That's just on the 757/767. There are also Caribbean turns worth 10 hours in one day (a DH on one end). (737 and 320 mainly).

I just wanna know from you: what is her name? Who are you stalking? You need to be home EVERY darn night? Really? Ooooooh-Kay..... Ever had a 48 hour layover in Europe? No? Didn't think so.


Bye Bye---General Lee