Nov 1st NJA? whats up???

[t-bone]

It would be cheaper if there were people to hire. Why would I go to NJA when you need 2500 hours when the airlines only need 1500? I believe they need to keep the pay up for the junior pilots

There are current f/o's leaving or trying to leave for airlines

I hear ya. We've got senior captains leaving as well....and many more trying.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Recall rights negotiated away with a new contract.

Why either side would waste time on something like that is beyond me.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

I would be very surprised if we had a contract negotiated before the recall. First vote is at least 2 years away IMO.

Also are you sure the company would even want that?

If they need to hire, why wouldn't they wan to keep the people they already hired?

If I were the company ... I would want junior pay higher and senior pay lower... in view of the possibility of strong pilot hiring at airlines

No disrespect, but are you kidding?!?!? Why would the company want to pay me and my fellow f-lows 8 year pay and growing when they can get 1st year guys to do the same job for a fraction of the pay?
I highly doubt the lawyer and his team care what the airlines are doing. We are a dime a dozen in their eyes.

 

[flagshipper]

The lowest FO would come back at year 6 pay. Also one of the eboard even said one time that the current furlough guys would keep their recall rights under the old CBA and new hires would fall under any new CBA recall rights. Reading between the lines he is basically saying they would consider a "B scale of recall rights" just like they did for bases in the 2005 CBA. Sure 5 bases is fine as long as we all get to keep our 200 bases. I would not be shocked at all to be sold down the river for a .01 percent raise. NetJets will never have a shortage of qualified applicants. If you think there are not thousands of guys (always will be) with 2500 hours who would love to work there you have no clue of the current pilot market.

 

[BentOver]

No offense Gunfyter, but you are really out of touch with the current market.

 

[gunfyter]

The pay difference between a first year guy and top of the pay scale is about $20K. For every 100 pilots returning ... thats $2 million. Plus they have to go through the hassle of screening and hiring ....

So $2 million spread between say 1000 active pilots... is $2K.


I am going to sell your seniority for $2K?

That is about what you are talking about. Because if 300 return and there are almost 3000 active the proportions are similar so $2K per active guy if we were base enough to sell you out.

It kind of hurts my feelings that you think I would sell you out for any amount.

 

[gunfyter]

No offense Gunfyter, but you are really out of touch with the current market.

I think the market is about to change. We will see. Every time we get to the point where it seems a pilot shortage will force wages up ... something happens. 911, market crashes ....

 

[gunfyter]

Another way to look at the cost of returning furloughed pilots with the proper seniority vs year 1 new hires:

If the pay difference averages $20K... and there is about 1 furloughed pilot per aircraft on the property....

Then we are talking $20K per airplane cost. I do not think it is significant enough for the company to want it.

 

[imacdog]

The pay difference between a first year guy and top of the pay scale is about $20K. For every 100 pilots returning ... thats $2 million. Plus they have to go through the hassle of screening and hiring ....

So $2 million spread between say 1000 active pilots... is $2K.


I am going to sell your seniority for $2K?

That is about what you are talking about. Because if 300 return and there are almost 3000 active the proportions are similar so $2K per active guy if we were base enough to sell you out.

It kind of hurts my feelings that you think I would sell you out for any amount.

No offense to you but the pilot group has already demonstrated the ability to do just that.

 

[imacdog]

I will gladly look at your list. Please provide it.

Go ahead and look for the last time any mention of the furloughees was made in a union publication toward the active pilots. The 495 are now out of sight and out of mind to the active group. We can't even get an honorable mention in a yearly review, even though the flight attendants did make it into the communication. ALPA, for its faults, would never allow something like that to happen.

 

[imacdog]

I hear ya. We've got senior captains leaving as well....and many more trying.

In the last 12 months we've had the active pilot list shrink by 36 pilots, for an annual attrition rate of 1.4%.

 

[BORG]

Go ahead and look for the last time any mention of the furloughees was made in a union publication toward the active pilots. The 495 are now out of sight and out of mind to the active group. We can't even get an honorable mention in a yearly review, even though the flight attendants did make it into the communication. ALPA, for its faults, would never allow something like that to happen.

To add to this - when I was furloughed from an ALPA carrier I maintained access to the web board until the airline ceased to exist.

Evidently NJASAP has legal concerns about our access to the board that other pilot unions don't share.

Or maybe the union leader accidentally told the truth when he said he was glad we didn't have access because of all the problems we'd cause...

 

[t-bone]

The pay difference between a first year guy and top of the pay scale is about $20K.

Not sure where that number comes from...but if it's accurate or even in the ballpark, it wouldn't take long to cover the cost of initial training with the savings in salary over of the long run with someone on year 1 pay vs year 6 and up. And for every year after that, the company continues to save. I hope those guys all get called back, but it's pretty easy to see why the company would be willing to offer alternative proposals.

 

[t-bone]

In the last 12 months we've had the active pilot list shrink by 36 pilots, for an annual attrition rate of 1.4%.

I believe we're at 44 gone out of 220 for 2013. And finally our CEO has stated that he is unhappy with that level of attrition and they have started to loosen the purse strings, albeit slowly.

 

[CA1900]

Go ahead and look for the last time any mention of the furloughees was made in a union publication toward the active pilots. The 495 are now out of sight and out of mind to the active group.

Please don't judge the views of the active pilot group by what is printed in -- or omitted from -- those publications. Quite a lot of us think about you guys every tour. One fairly senior guy was talking with me today, and said that he thinks people are going to bail left and right to the major airlines as the quality of life degrades and the negotiations drag on. He said, and I quote, "We're going to lose some great people, and that's after we already lost 495 of our best."

I'd be very surprised if any of us is interested in degrading anyone's contractual rights. We're looking to improve the whole package for all of us, you included, into a mature contract. I have no idea how long it will take, but I won't vote "yes" until it's done right.