Opening Salvo AS vs DL

[Saluki Dawg]

That Airline already exists!

 

[General Lee]

It would seem that the best plan would be to emulate the most successful airlines of the day.
I expect the announcement of our bankruptcy any day.
Once we jettison those pesky IOUs, pensions and burdensome contracts we agreed to honor then the world is our oyster.
There appears to be no reward for being a good corporate citizen so why not?
I mean it's the free market right? Only the strong survive? Those who can't run a good business will be cast aside in the Darwinian race to perfection. Oh wait, I forgot, everyone loves a fantastical resurrection story. Thank God for Chapter 11.
Why do I feel the invisible hand is about to sucker punch my little ol airline?

Welcome to America, the land of second chances. Airlines, and even people can go BK and start over. That can have good and bad consequences (lost pensions etc), but then again if you don't like it, you can move to the ME and see what happens when you can't pay your bills. Hopefully you and your airline never have to go through a BK (not fun), but if you do, you can survive on the other side. Lawyers and upper management always seem to do fine, but that option is always there to hopefully help you out in bad times.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[becket]

Wow! How many pensions could be restored just from one quarterly profit?

 

[Scoot 11]

Wow! How many pensions could be restored just from one quarterly profit?

You're absolutely correct. With that said, I'll take the money in MY NAME any day of the week over a "future promise." Today's superstar is tomorrow's failed lesson learned. Remember the 1990's? Look at those superstars now.
Bu either way, I'll take the profits. Will make for a nice profit sharing come Feb.

 

[eskimopilot]

Welcome to America, the land of second chances. Airlines, and even people can go BK and start over. That can have good and bad consequences (lost pensions etc), but then again if you don't like it, you can move to the ME and see what happens when you can't pay your bills. Hopefully you and your airline never have to go through a BK (not fun), but if you do, you can survive on the other side. Lawyers and upper management always seem to do fine, but that option is always there to hopefully help you out in bad times.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Well there you go. No wonder RA doesn't like Emirates. They are the top of the evolutionary chain that is the free market. They don't get any protection in order to survive. Wait, isn't it the anti competitive benefits that Emirates receives what he hates? So confused.

 

[General Lee]

Well there you go. No wonder RA doesn't like Emirates. They are the top of the evolutionary chain that is the free market. They don't get any protection in order to survive. Wait, isn't it the anti competitive benefits that Emirates receives what he hates? So confused.

Really? Trying to compare the two? State sponsored is different than using the BK code, at least with airlines (not GM and AIG). Going BK affects credit ratings and affects stock prices. State sponsored airlines can somehow order 100 777s and 100 A380s, and somehow pay for it. Wouldn't orders for 200 plus widebodies involve crushing debt? (oh wait, they took advantage of the EXIM Bank special financing USUALLY used by poor nations....) Yeah, no protections whatsoever....... Riiiiight. Who backs them for the loans for 100 plus A380s and 100 plus 777s? Can you see DL buying 100 A380s? How about AK? Could they afford it?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[eskimopilot]

State sponsored or using BK makes no difference to your competitors. Either way they are at a competitive disadvantage.
The sad reality is that a fundamentally sound business (Alaska) will more than likely be
driven out of the market by a failed one. (Don't take it personally I'm not just referring to Delta).
It will be a sad day when we are gone, not just for the brand but for the market. If and when a former BK carrier pulls the trigger i sure hope they don't bring the attitude that we should be thankful.

 

[Old School 737]

Alaska buys JetBlue !! We need the other coast !! And if we don't get them then we drive the other airlines into a bidding war and then the heat is off us .. Either way we win !!

 

[General Lee]

State sponsored or using BK makes no difference to your competitors. Either way they are at a competitive disadvantage.
The sad reality is that a fundamentally sound business (Alaska) will more than likely be
driven out of the market by a failed one. (Don't take it personally I'm not just referring to Delta).
It will be a sad day when we are gone, not just for the brand but for the market. If and when a former BK carrier pulls the trigger i sure hope they don't bring the attitude that we should be thankful.

No, I think you are upset that you may actually have some competition in your corner of the Country. Most of the DL employees (except the pilots) kept their pensions (most of the senior NWA pilots kept frozen pensions). DL is still paying down debt (it was at $17 Billion a few years ago after the BK, and according to the conference call it is now down to $9.9 Billion, with the new aim to bring it to $7 billion within a couple more years). DL pilot wages aren't at the same level as before, but they are the highest of any Legacy, and higher than yours, with the next contract openers coming soon. The other employees are pretty close to their former wages, and the addition of profit sharing sure has helped bring up the overall average.

So, you might want to change your opinion of these "BK carriers", they may offer a lot more than your own. Your airline is dumping 734s and 73Gs for larger and fewer 738s and 739s. You have no scope clause, and Dash-8s are slowly going to take your AK flying, while SKW may take a bunch of your West Coast flying. At DL, more mainline planes, 5000 retirements, 150 fewer 50 seat RJs in the next two years, higher pay, a DC fund in the pilot's name, and management that seems to really know how to compete.

I actually really like your airline. I've flown on it a few times, and I've always been treated well. You have a great niche up there in SEA and PDX, along with a great ANC operation. But, if your people step on the wrong toes and can't compete with the big guys, expect some real competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Old School 737]

Actually were not shrinking airframe numbers but hardly adding any either ..

 

[Deadalus]

American/US Airways merger falls through, Alaska purchases US Airways. I always fly Alaska out west and would love to be able to do the same on the east coast. Probably would never happen, but it would protect Alaska from a future takeover.

 

[tico]

I think we actually are shrinking.....according to Mngmnt dude at recurrent....We are planned to have more seats but fewer tails......we cornered him and he fessed up.....But who cares....same as it ever was here.....Our brief moment in the sun is very near over....Talk is further reduction in Hawaii.....That mine is playing out.....Same way the Alaska mine is already played out.....Lots less Fed spending in the north....Margins are way down in the inter Alaska market....Q400's are an attempt to balance that......FAI is a ghost town as is ADQ......Lots of hard work in the future for Alaska.....No real room to grow....The four musketeers that run the show are interested only in their personal financial growth.....but they have managed to hoodwink the masses......pretty sure Delta would not buy us..... Nothing but bluesky for sale at The Alaska Air Group

 

[Old School 737]

I think we actually are shrinking.....according to Mngmnt dude at recurrent....We are planned to have more seats but fewer tails......we cornered him and he fessed up.....But who cares....same as it ever was here.....Our brief moment in the sun is very near over....Talk is further reduction in Hawaii.....That mine is playing out.....Same way the Alaska mine is already played out.....Lots less Fed spending in the north....Margins are way down in the inter Alaska market....Q400's are an attempt to balance that......FAI is a ghost town as is ADQ......Lots of hard work in the future for Alaska.....No real room to grow....The four musketeers that run the show are interested only in their personal financial growth.....but they have managed to hoodwink the masses......pretty sure Delta would not buy us..... Nothing but bluesky for sale at The Alaska Air Group

I'm not that worried .. Another record profit today !! Too bad we didn't fight for a bigger share of it ...

 

[tico]

I'm not that worried .. Another record profit today !! Too bad we didn't fight for a bigger share of it ...

Not to worry...the flight attendants are...prepping for a CHAOS vote

 

[RNP.15]

I like the buy jet blue idea. Rule both coasts! Have the size to fight off the mega carriers.