Opening Salvo AS vs DL

[flythere]

Earn Double Miles and Faster Elite Qualification on Popular Routes

Alaska Airlines is introducing more flights in our most popular markets throughout the west coast ... offering you more nonstop flights to the places you need to go.

To celebrate, we're offering Double Elite Qualifying Miles on the following routes:

Between Seattle and:

Las Vegas (LAS)
Los Angeles (LAX)
Oakland (OAK)
San Francisco (SFO)
San Jose (SJC)
Santa Rosa (STS)
Enjoy our excellent service while earning Double Miles to spend on your next award trip, and double qualification towards Elite Status in our award-winning Mileage Plan? program.

To earn Double Elite Qualifying Miles, simply register your Mileage Plan? number below prior to your first qualifying flight, and travel between October 22, 2013 and May 31, 2014.

Learn more about the benefits of Mileage Plan? Elite Status.

It appears AS is trying to one up DL by offering double miles on competing routes with Big Daddy Delta out of SEA. I guess this is in response to DL increasing its SEA capacity!

What's next??

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Earn Double Miles and Faster Elite Qualification on Popular Routes

Alaska Airlines is introducing more flights in our most popular markets throughout the west coast ... offering you more nonstop flights to the places you need to go.

To celebrate, we're offering Double Elite Qualifying Miles on the following routes:

Between Seattle and:

Las Vegas (LAS)
Los Angeles (LAX)
Oakland (OAK)
San Francisco (SFO)
San Jose (SJC)
Santa Rosa (STS)
Enjoy our excellent service while earning Double Miles to spend on your next award trip, and double qualification towards Elite Status in our award-winning Mileage Plan? program.

To earn Double Elite Qualifying Miles, simply register your Mileage Plan? number below prior to your first qualifying flight, and travel between October 22, 2013 and May 31, 2014.

Learn more about the benefits of Mileage Plan? Elite Status.

It appears AS is trying to one up DL by offering double miles on competing routes with Big Daddy Delta out of SEA. I guess this is in response to DL increasing its SEA capacity!

What's next??

DL announced their promotion 4 days ago:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2142

AS is matching DL's promotion, but enhancing theirs by including all Bay Area airports.

 

[flythere]

Very interesting!

 

[Flyby1206]

This battle has been brewing for a while. Each adding capacity in the others markets, etc. I dont know what AS did to piss off Delta, but its getting ugly!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Oh let's see....

SEA-SLC
SEA-MSP
Another SEA-ATL flight.....

ALL for the American codeshare. So the sentiments were started when somebody started reaching into both pockets in the quest to codeshare.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I was thinking RA or BT had a bad round of golf.

 

[tico]

In the end.....we are so small that Delta can easily roll us if they want...I would venture that Delta has more pilots on Vacation/Sick leave etc on any given day then we have pilots total.....They will build SEA up and then cut us loose.....Many of us at this airline overstate our importance

 

[cbrown1]

In the end.....we are so small that Delta can easily roll us if they want...I would venture that Delta has more pilots on Vacation/Sick leave etc on any given day then we have pilots total.....They will build SEA up and then cut us loose.....Many of us at this airline overstate our importance

Maybe someone will buy you guys.

 

[General Lee]

Oh let's see....

SEA-SLC
SEA-MSP
Another SEA-ATL flight.....

ALL for the American codeshare. So the sentiments were started when somebody started reaching into both pockets in the quest to codeshare.

They also added PDX to ATL, and they allowed a codeshare out of SEA with Emirates. DL flies a lot of pax to India and the ME via their own nonstop flights from SEA to AMS and CDG, and then allows connections to go on KL/AF. (Besides DL's own AMS to BOM flight). A codeshare with EK sure seems like a slap in the face....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ski Bum]

In the end.....we are so small that Delta can easily roll us if they want...I would venture that Delta has more pilots on Vacation/Sick leave etc on any given day then we have pilots total.....They will build SEA up and then cut us loose.....Many of us at this airline overstate our importance

Phew! I am glad I am not the only one that feels this way. Delta just announced a quarterly profit that is on par with our quarterly revenue. Beating back a few airlines from SEA in the past seems to give some a little too much confidence. The industry is different now and holding our own in the past against an airline 3 times our size is one thing, but how do we compete with 3 mega airlines that are each 10 times our size today?

Alaska is going to be the last unmerged legacy carrier in the lower 48. All of the other carriers decided they needed to merge to survive and yet little Alaska management wants to stay solo. They are either arrogant, naive, or they have a good plan. I am not so sure. At this point I feel like we are the local store that everybody likes to shop at, but there is a brand new Super Store opening down the street.

 

[Ski Bum]

They also added PDX to ATL, and they allowed a codeshare out of SEA with Emirates. DL flies a lot of pax to India and the ME via their own nonstop flights from SEA to AMS and CDG, and then allows connections to go on KL/AF. (Besides DL's own AMS to BOM flight). A codeshare with EK sure seems like a slap in the face....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Clarification.

We had 2 x SEA to ATL, but now we only have one a day. The PDX to ATL is just replacing the flight we dropped out of SEA. So same number of flights to ATL just one from SEA and one from PDX.

I do hate our codeshare with Emirates though.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

We will merge with Hawaiian. I'm not pulling this out of my arse, it's gonna happen.

 

[Dan Roman]

We will merge with Hawaiian. I'm not pulling this out of my arse, it's gonna happen.

Yes you are!
Alaska needs a relatively small International AirBus hub in HNL like it needs a hole in the head. The two operations are doing fine as smaller high quality legacies. Combining the two would would just make a small disorganized mess with incompatible fleets and incompatible business plans.

 

[eskimopilot]

It would seem that the best plan would be to emulate the most successful airlines of the day.
I expect the announcement of our bankruptcy any day.
Once we jettison those pesky IOUs, pensions and burdensome contracts we agreed to honor then the world is our oyster.
There appears to be no reward for being a good corporate citizen so why not?
I mean it's the free market right? Only the strong survive? Those who can't run a good business will be cast aside in the Darwinian race to perfection. Oh wait, I forgot, everyone loves a fantastical resurrection story. Thank God for Chapter 11.
Why do I feel the invisible hand is about to sucker punch my little ol airline?

 

[Flyby1206]

I think there is room for a non-alliance value carrier in the US. Take AS, HA, VX, B6 and put them together. Strong hubs on both coasts, lots of codeshare partners for international coverage, and the A330 ops from HA could be expanded to cover routes through Latin America, high traffic Euro routes, and pacific routes from west coast hubs.

The world headquarters can be in HNL for Dan Roman to be happy

It is clear that a lot of foreign carriers want to partner with US airlines, but due to alliance restrictions they are hampered. Having a large, non-aligned, 1-stop place for covering the USA would attract a lot of partnership attention.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

That Airline already exists!

 

[General Lee]

It would seem that the best plan would be to emulate the most successful airlines of the day.
I expect the announcement of our bankruptcy any day.
Once we jettison those pesky IOUs, pensions and burdensome contracts we agreed to honor then the world is our oyster.
There appears to be no reward for being a good corporate citizen so why not?
I mean it's the free market right? Only the strong survive? Those who can't run a good business will be cast aside in the Darwinian race to perfection. Oh wait, I forgot, everyone loves a fantastical resurrection story. Thank God for Chapter 11.
Why do I feel the invisible hand is about to sucker punch my little ol airline?

Welcome to America, the land of second chances. Airlines, and even people can go BK and start over. That can have good and bad consequences (lost pensions etc), but then again if you don't like it, you can move to the ME and see what happens when you can't pay your bills. Hopefully you and your airline never have to go through a BK (not fun), but if you do, you can survive on the other side. Lawyers and upper management always seem to do fine, but that option is always there to hopefully help you out in bad times.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[becket]

Wow! How many pensions could be restored just from one quarterly profit?

 

[Scoot 11]

Wow! How many pensions could be restored just from one quarterly profit?

You're absolutely correct. With that said, I'll take the money in MY NAME any day of the week over a "future promise." Today's superstar is tomorrow's failed lesson learned. Remember the 1990's? Look at those superstars now.
Bu either way, I'll take the profits. Will make for a nice profit sharing come Feb.

 

[eskimopilot]

Welcome to America, the land of second chances. Airlines, and even people can go BK and start over. That can have good and bad consequences (lost pensions etc), but then again if you don't like it, you can move to the ME and see what happens when you can't pay your bills. Hopefully you and your airline never have to go through a BK (not fun), but if you do, you can survive on the other side. Lawyers and upper management always seem to do fine, but that option is always there to hopefully help you out in bad times.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Well there you go. No wonder RA doesn't like Emirates. They are the top of the evolutionary chain that is the free market. They don't get any protection in order to survive. Wait, isn't it the anti competitive benefits that Emirates receives what he hates? So confused.

 

[General Lee]

Well there you go. No wonder RA doesn't like Emirates. They are the top of the evolutionary chain that is the free market. They don't get any protection in order to survive. Wait, isn't it the anti competitive benefits that Emirates receives what he hates? So confused.

Really? Trying to compare the two? State sponsored is different than using the BK code, at least with airlines (not GM and AIG). Going BK affects credit ratings and affects stock prices. State sponsored airlines can somehow order 100 777s and 100 A380s, and somehow pay for it. Wouldn't orders for 200 plus widebodies involve crushing debt? (oh wait, they took advantage of the EXIM Bank special financing USUALLY used by poor nations....) Yeah, no protections whatsoever....... Riiiiight. Who backs them for the loans for 100 plus A380s and 100 plus 777s? Can you see DL buying 100 A380s? How about AK? Could they afford it?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[eskimopilot]

State sponsored or using BK makes no difference to your competitors. Either way they are at a competitive disadvantage.
The sad reality is that a fundamentally sound business (Alaska) will more than likely be
driven out of the market by a failed one. (Don't take it personally I'm not just referring to Delta).
It will be a sad day when we are gone, not just for the brand but for the market. If and when a former BK carrier pulls the trigger i sure hope they don't bring the attitude that we should be thankful.

 

[Old School 737]

Alaska buys JetBlue !! We need the other coast !! And if we don't get them then we drive the other airlines into a bidding war and then the heat is off us .. Either way we win !!

 

[General Lee]

State sponsored or using BK makes no difference to your competitors. Either way they are at a competitive disadvantage.
The sad reality is that a fundamentally sound business (Alaska) will more than likely be
driven out of the market by a failed one. (Don't take it personally I'm not just referring to Delta).
It will be a sad day when we are gone, not just for the brand but for the market. If and when a former BK carrier pulls the trigger i sure hope they don't bring the attitude that we should be thankful.

No, I think you are upset that you may actually have some competition in your corner of the Country. Most of the DL employees (except the pilots) kept their pensions (most of the senior NWA pilots kept frozen pensions). DL is still paying down debt (it was at $17 Billion a few years ago after the BK, and according to the conference call it is now down to $9.9 Billion, with the new aim to bring it to $7 billion within a couple more years). DL pilot wages aren't at the same level as before, but they are the highest of any Legacy, and higher than yours, with the next contract openers coming soon. The other employees are pretty close to their former wages, and the addition of profit sharing sure has helped bring up the overall average.

So, you might want to change your opinion of these "BK carriers", they may offer a lot more than your own. Your airline is dumping 734s and 73Gs for larger and fewer 738s and 739s. You have no scope clause, and Dash-8s are slowly going to take your AK flying, while SKW may take a bunch of your West Coast flying. At DL, more mainline planes, 5000 retirements, 150 fewer 50 seat RJs in the next two years, higher pay, a DC fund in the pilot's name, and management that seems to really know how to compete.

I actually really like your airline. I've flown on it a few times, and I've always been treated well. You have a great niche up there in SEA and PDX, along with a great ANC operation. But, if your people step on the wrong toes and can't compete with the big guys, expect some real competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Old School 737]

Actually were not shrinking airframe numbers but hardly adding any either ..

 

[Deadalus]

American/US Airways merger falls through, Alaska purchases US Airways. I always fly Alaska out west and would love to be able to do the same on the east coast. Probably would never happen, but it would protect Alaska from a future takeover.

 

[tico]

I think we actually are shrinking.....according to Mngmnt dude at recurrent....We are planned to have more seats but fewer tails......we cornered him and he fessed up.....But who cares....same as it ever was here.....Our brief moment in the sun is very near over....Talk is further reduction in Hawaii.....That mine is playing out.....Same way the Alaska mine is already played out.....Lots less Fed spending in the north....Margins are way down in the inter Alaska market....Q400's are an attempt to balance that......FAI is a ghost town as is ADQ......Lots of hard work in the future for Alaska.....No real room to grow....The four musketeers that run the show are interested only in their personal financial growth.....but they have managed to hoodwink the masses......pretty sure Delta would not buy us..... Nothing but bluesky for sale at The Alaska Air Group

 

[Old School 737]

I think we actually are shrinking.....according to Mngmnt dude at recurrent....We are planned to have more seats but fewer tails......we cornered him and he fessed up.....But who cares....same as it ever was here.....Our brief moment in the sun is very near over....Talk is further reduction in Hawaii.....That mine is playing out.....Same way the Alaska mine is already played out.....Lots less Fed spending in the north....Margins are way down in the inter Alaska market....Q400's are an attempt to balance that......FAI is a ghost town as is ADQ......Lots of hard work in the future for Alaska.....No real room to grow....The four musketeers that run the show are interested only in their personal financial growth.....but they have managed to hoodwink the masses......pretty sure Delta would not buy us..... Nothing but bluesky for sale at The Alaska Air Group

I'm not that worried .. Another record profit today !! Too bad we didn't fight for a bigger share of it ...

 

[tico]

I'm not that worried .. Another record profit today !! Too bad we didn't fight for a bigger share of it ...

Not to worry...the flight attendants are...prepping for a CHAOS vote

 

[RNP.15]

I like the buy jet blue idea. Rule both coasts! Have the size to fight off the mega carriers.