United Pilot Dies After Inflight Heart Attack

[densoo]

Perhaps a little sympathy for Captain Skillen is in order rather than point fingers to make a point based on your own wants? He had the pension that was promised to him stolen from him and may have had no choice but to keep flying. Or perhaps he still liked to fly airplanes, either way you are not qualified to judge him.
RIP Captain Skillen.

Speaking of his pension, does his wife get it? Or does it go back to the company?

 

[Dan Roman]

Speaking of his pension, does his wife get it? Or does it go back to the company?

Well I don't work for UAL but I'm sure it would go to his wife. No scenario exists that a company can take back a DC plan.

 

[flyboyike]

Perhaps a little sympathy for Captain Skillen is in order rather than point fingers to make a point based on your own wants? He had the pension that was promised to him stolen from him and may have had no choice but to keep flying. Or perhaps he still liked to fly airplanes, either way you are not qualified to judge him.

I'm qualified to state facts. One of those facts is that we're Americans, we're free, we ALWAYS have a choice.

 

[IAHERJ]

He was ex-CAL so he had an A fund as well as a B fund. I hope his wife gets it all. I understand he was preparing to retire and had a home on the Pacific side of Mexico. He was also fully retired Air Force. I'm sure she will be fine.

 

[Flopgut]

Perhaps a little sympathy for Captain Skillen is in order rather than point fingers to make a point based on your own wants?

Like that's not what you're on here to post?! Mr. Holier than thou?! GMAFB. All you old guys talk about is your own wants.

Old CAL pilots didn't lose their whole pension. It was frozen, but it still pays at a 100% lump sum. His wife gets an annuity now, not the lump sum.

This is a sad deal, for certain. But the reality is that if you have any sympathy for him, you ought to have some regard for others as well. All that has been done for old pilots in recent years will have not much but negative affects for generations of pilots to come. The temporary help that a very few got out of 65 won't produce the same for the rest of the pilot profession.

 

[Flopgut]

Two CAL pilots died in the last month guys. Why do we make such a big deal out of it when they're over 60?

One guy was 51 and the other was 44. They might have had 10% the A plan money Skilern had. Maybe. Maybe they would have lived a little longer if they could have had a better schedule the last 5 years...


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[BuckMurdock1]

R.I.P. Thoughts and prayers to his family. Kudos to F/O and crew..

 

[eaglesview]

Hmmmmmm, what? You got something to say striker? Let's hear it? This guy professed numerous times on here that if he missed age change date to keep his seniority he would come back as a new hire. I would have been the first to give him respect for doing so but that's not what he did. No different than a scab, all he wanted was the seniority. Just like a scab, he has to make excuses. He told us all he would set an example and he had the opportunity. Well, he set an example all right.

We don't need another thread about medical standards and how unfair certain rules are at certain times of certain pilots lives. Advanced age is just the result of a bunch of opportunists selfish behavior. Period. We're all 1/2 broke, pensionless, dead pilots just cruising along at this point. Waiting to see what knife gets stuffed in our backs by you guys who came up in the 80s. This is no longer a career. It's not really even much of a profession at this point. Anybody thinking they can escape this guys' same fate (die at the controls)? Good luck.


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Hmmmmm = Just noticing you always have the strike breakers back...Interesting.

 

[eaglesview]

Like that's not what you're on here to post?! Mr. Holier than thou?! GMAFB. All you old guys talk about is your own wants.

Old CAL pilots didn't lose their whole pension. It was frozen, but it still pays at a 100% lump sum. His wife gets an annuity now, not the lump sum.

This is a sad deal, for certain. But the reality is that if you have any sympathy for him, you ought to have some regard for others as well. All that has been done for old pilots in recent years will have not much but negative affects for generations of pilots to come. The temporary help that a very few got out of 65 won't produce the same for the rest of the pilot profession.

Two words......Anger Management

 

[Andy]

Perhaps a little sympathy for Captain Skillen is in order rather than point fingers to make a point based on your own wants? He had the pension that was promised to him stolen from him and may have had no choice but to keep flying. Or perhaps he still liked to fly airplanes, either way you are not qualified to judge him.
RIP Captain Skillen.

He was hired in 1987. He had a pension. Frozen, but he had a pension. I don't know the numbers but I'd wager that it was a decent sum of money.

Two CAL pilots died in the last month guys. Why do we make such a big deal out of it when they're over 60?

I could be wrong on this, but I've noticed that L-CAL pilots drop dead a LOT more often than pilots at other airlines over the last 8 or so years. Both on and off duty. Like the superscab who died in the customs line in Costa Rica. I'd be curious to see the percentages of pilots who die at each company.

From my experiences flying on the LCAL side, I'd say it's due to the flagrant violations of the FARs by the company. They tried to keep me on duty for more than 16 hours in order to fly a 3 hour delayed flight and they've violated my crew rest. Not to mention how there are guys who actually want to sit in the middle seat on deadheads because it pays more.
I've filed legitimate grievances but CALALPA isn't interested in pursuing grievances.

JP was famous for saying that LCAL pilots are capitalists. I'd say it's more a matter of severely bending the FARs to make a couple of extra bucks. Lifespan be damned.

 

[Flopgut]

Hmmmmm = Just noticing you always have the strike breakers back...Interesting.

I no longer see any reason to have any less regard for them than I do you.

 

[sshrae]

It all goes back to the FAA medical process. It should be much more thorough and a much lower pass rate. In Japan less than 50% pass a medical the first time and it is just as difficult every time you take one. Time to toughen up the standards and enforce the process. RIP!!!

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

 

[eaglesview]

I no longer see any reason to have any less regard for them than I do you.

I love it when people confirm your suspicions for you. Makes things much easier.

 

[Flopgut]

I love it when people confirm your suspicions for you. Makes things much easier.

Ha! Go ahead and believe whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

Maybe what he wants are super stringent test that get every guy senior to him out on medical. Then maybe he wants to cut LTD so that it only covers you for 5 years (less chance of getting well and "sneaking back") in exchange for a couple dollars added to book rates.

Then maybe he realizes his strategy was a mistake when ...

No one knows for certain how healthy they are. No one.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

Although I agree with you in spirit, that would be impossible to implement in the states, huge discrimination liabilities and grounding a good 60% (provided some doctors take pitty on some fools) of all airlines fleets...! Look around, how many pilots walking around US airports that could skip a meal or two?

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

I agree it will not change overnight but continuing the ridiculous PASS ANYBODY medical the FAA is currently using will continue to be the reason Pilots are dying at the controls. There is MUCH room for improvement and tightening up the standards perhaps an incremental phased in increase in testing and monitoring will be the solution that is acceptable. In China the CAAC Doctors will show up at your preflight briefing and ask you to take your blood pressure. If it is over the standard (140/90) then you do NOT fly that day, your grounded.

 

[laker4284]

The older you get, the odds go up. Probably exponentially if you are unhealthy or have hereditary/genetic dispositions.

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

 

[laker4284]

Two CAL pilots died in the last month guys. Why do we make such a big deal out of it when they're over 60?

One guy was 51 and the other was 44. They might have had 10% the A plan money Skilern had. Maybe. Maybe they would have lived a little longer if they could have had a better schedule the last 5 years...


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Jeez , Flop. Shut the #%^#!%! up. A guy is dead and his family grieving. Hs age matters to one bit. There's plenty of pain to go around without you pissing into the puddle. Again.

 

[AWACoff]

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

The reason the number of heart issues goes down after that age is due to less of the population being alive. Figures lie and liars figure ;-)

 

[Skyboy722]

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

You are not arguing, with a straight face, that the odds of incapacitation or death DECREASE with age, are you?

Facts? How about a little common sense, huh?

 

[Mungusaurus]

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

And yet, as Asiana proved, these highly fit, medically superior pilots managed to ramp strike at SFO!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

You are not arguing, with a straight face, that the odds of incapacitation or death DECREASE with age, are you?

Facts? How about a little common sense, huh?

If you have a condition that lends itself to early heart disease it will most likely show before 60. If you make it too 60 with no signs of heart disease than you most likely don't have a medical condition that would predispose you to an early heart attack. At least so the thinking goes.

 

[sshrae]

I agree it will not change overnight but continuing the ridiculous PASS ANYBODY medical the FAA is currently using will continue to be the reason Pilots are dying at the controls. There is MUCH room for improvement and tightening up the standards perhaps an incremental phased in increase in testing and monitoring will be the solution that is acceptable. In China the CAAC Doctors will show up at your preflight briefing and ask you to take your blood pressure. If it is over the standard (140/90) then you do NOT fly that day, your grounded.

Nuclear stress test is the gold standard in heart tests, the problem is if you were to have to do one of those every year you would set off the airport scanners for a week because you have radioactive fluid in your blood. A heart ct scan maybe called minor by some but a cath goes in through your groin. That does not sound fun. EKG every year is fine, this is very rare for someone to have an mi at the controls. What you are talking about would hurt our industry not help it. My wife is a cardiac ep and says the nuc test would be the only way to know for sure if someone is at imminent risk. I sure as heck would not want to get one of those every year I don't know about you.

 

[sshrae]

And your information on china is inaccurate, at least if you consider Cathay as part of china...their medical is more intense but they don't do any of what you mentioned except for the EKG.

 

[Flopgut]

Jeez , Flop. Shut the #%^#!%! up. A guy is dead and his family grieving. Hs age matters to one bit. There's plenty of pain to go around without you pissing into the puddle. Again.

I'm counting 3 dead at MY airline, not just the guy over 60. They ALL had families Laker. Yeah, you, Undaunted and Roman want to jump in here and manage the issue for the old guy imperative, I knew the 51 YO. His schedule the last 5 years was a train wreck. PBS and age 65 hit him hard and it showed. I would guess he put on 50-75 lbs in the last 5-6 years. We used to discuss possible ramifications of the age change, now we're seeing actual consequences. This change needed to include some balance in the seniority paradigm where everybody took a few months of reserve or worked a few weekends or something like that. Instead, what this rule was really about was taking the seniority bump. Just like the poster boy Undaunted made very clear for us. He didn't want the job if it didn't give him the seniority.


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[Flopgut]

The only thing that kept at least 50% of the legacy CAL guys flying past 60 was their great schedules. And in the case of my friend, his bad schedule was what more than likely what ultimately did him in.


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[Skyboy722]

If you have a condition that lends itself to early heart disease it will most likely show before 60. If you make it too 60 with no signs of heart disease than you most likely don't have a medical condition that would predispose you to an early heart attack. At least so the thinking goes.

I realize what you are saying about heart disease, but I am talking about ALL reasons for incapacitation and death, which is what really counts when you are talking about inflight incapacitation. The odds for those, as a whole, definitely do not decrease with age.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

And yet even BEFORE the body cools FI's spokesman for one-set-of-rules-for-me-and-a-different-set-of rules-for everyone-else has to chime in.

You're worse than anyone you would assail as "get out of my seat" and you're just as bad as any pilot who crossed a picket line. You're weak.

Flopgut:

What's your problem? I lost my pension and retired into poverty (PBGC and food stamps) at age-60 when I was perfectly healthy and could have flown for 5 more years helping my kid with his college tuition and providing for my family. You, on the other hand, will have 5 extra years to build up a real pension and provide for the expenses that every family man has. You are welcome for this bonus you never expected, but where's the thanks?

On the other hand, I had a career of 20-years flying sideways, 2 very long furloughs and my pension stolen and had ALPA (and you) doing everything they could to prevent me from working once my pension was lost. In your career, partly on account of my efforts, you will earn far more money than I every did. Where's the thanks.

And regarding crossing a picket line: I put it all on the line in '85 and have a "ALPA Battlestar" pin to prove it. I walked the line every day for 28 days to help prevent a "B" scale. What thanks do I get, just insults from the likes of you and others on this Board that know nothing of the facts.

How about you, what have you ever done for the airline pilot's professional cause? Pickup you paycheck? That's right, nothing but write insults on FI, as usual, right?

In any event, I love you my former colleague.

The courtesy of a reply would be appreciated.