United Pilot Dies After Inflight Heart Attack

[Flopgut]

Hmmmmm = Just noticing you always have the strike breakers back...Interesting.

I no longer see any reason to have any less regard for them than I do you.

 

[sshrae]

It all goes back to the FAA medical process. It should be much more thorough and a much lower pass rate. In Japan less than 50% pass a medical the first time and it is just as difficult every time you take one. Time to toughen up the standards and enforce the process. RIP!!!

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

 

[eaglesview]

I no longer see any reason to have any less regard for them than I do you.

I love it when people confirm your suspicions for you. Makes things much easier.

 

[Flopgut]

I love it when people confirm your suspicions for you. Makes things much easier.

Ha! Go ahead and believe whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

Maybe what he wants are super stringent test that get every guy senior to him out on medical. Then maybe he wants to cut LTD so that it only covers you for 5 years (less chance of getting well and "sneaking back") in exchange for a couple dollars added to book rates.

Then maybe he realizes his strategy was a mistake when ...

No one knows for certain how healthy they are. No one.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Toughen up the standards? Is an annual EKG not enough for you? Should we all have to go through a nuclear stress test every six months? Even a stress test can miss possible symptoms of a potential MI. When it comes to your heart there are a lot of potential issues that cannot be predicted without a multitude of regular invasive tests. Is that what you want?? I don't think so.

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

Although I agree with you in spirit, that would be impossible to implement in the states, huge discrimination liabilities and grounding a good 60% (provided some doctors take pitty on some fools) of all airlines fleets...! Look around, how many pilots walking around US airports that could skip a meal or two?

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

I agree it will not change overnight but continuing the ridiculous PASS ANYBODY medical the FAA is currently using will continue to be the reason Pilots are dying at the controls. There is MUCH room for improvement and tightening up the standards perhaps an incremental phased in increase in testing and monitoring will be the solution that is acceptable. In China the CAAC Doctors will show up at your preflight briefing and ask you to take your blood pressure. If it is over the standard (140/90) then you do NOT fly that day, your grounded.

 

[laker4284]

The older you get, the odds go up. Probably exponentially if you are unhealthy or have hereditary/genetic dispositions.

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

 

[laker4284]

Two CAL pilots died in the last month guys. Why do we make such a big deal out of it when they're over 60?

One guy was 51 and the other was 44. They might have had 10% the A plan money Skilern had. Maybe. Maybe they would have lived a little longer if they could have had a better schedule the last 5 years...


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Jeez , Flop. Shut the #%^#!%! up. A guy is dead and his family grieving. Hs age matters to one bit. There's plenty of pain to go around without you pissing into the puddle. Again.

 

[AWACoff]

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

The reason the number of heart issues goes down after that age is due to less of the population being alive. Figures lie and liars figure ;-)

 

[Skyboy722]

Nope! One of the things CLEARLY to come out of the FAA's ARC was that the highest rate of heart issues came in the upper 40s up to mid 50s. An Israeli study showed the same thing.

We might as well stick to facts, right? ;-)

You are not arguing, with a straight face, that the odds of incapacitation or death DECREASE with age, are you?

Facts? How about a little common sense, huh?

 

[Mungusaurus]

Yes toughen up the standards. No an EKG is not enough. In China every year you do an EKG, 24 EKG, treadmill stress test, 24 hour blood pressure test, blood and urine tests of over 40 items, heart color ultrasound test, some pilots do a minimally invasive Heart CT scan. In Japan only 50% of pilots pass the initial test and many are disqualified along the way. The Candy Arse FAA medical check IS the PROBLEM. If the process was toughened and the standards strictly enforced then many of these incidents would not be occurring.

And yet, as Asiana proved, these highly fit, medically superior pilots managed to ramp strike at SFO!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

You are not arguing, with a straight face, that the odds of incapacitation or death DECREASE with age, are you?

Facts? How about a little common sense, huh?

If you have a condition that lends itself to early heart disease it will most likely show before 60. If you make it too 60 with no signs of heart disease than you most likely don't have a medical condition that would predispose you to an early heart attack. At least so the thinking goes.

 

[sshrae]

I agree it will not change overnight but continuing the ridiculous PASS ANYBODY medical the FAA is currently using will continue to be the reason Pilots are dying at the controls. There is MUCH room for improvement and tightening up the standards perhaps an incremental phased in increase in testing and monitoring will be the solution that is acceptable. In China the CAAC Doctors will show up at your preflight briefing and ask you to take your blood pressure. If it is over the standard (140/90) then you do NOT fly that day, your grounded.

Nuclear stress test is the gold standard in heart tests, the problem is if you were to have to do one of those every year you would set off the airport scanners for a week because you have radioactive fluid in your blood. A heart ct scan maybe called minor by some but a cath goes in through your groin. That does not sound fun. EKG every year is fine, this is very rare for someone to have an mi at the controls. What you are talking about would hurt our industry not help it. My wife is a cardiac ep and says the nuc test would be the only way to know for sure if someone is at imminent risk. I sure as heck would not want to get one of those every year I don't know about you.

 

[sshrae]

And your information on china is inaccurate, at least if you consider Cathay as part of china...their medical is more intense but they don't do any of what you mentioned except for the EKG.

 

[Flopgut]

Jeez , Flop. Shut the #%^#!%! up. A guy is dead and his family grieving. Hs age matters to one bit. There's plenty of pain to go around without you pissing into the puddle. Again.

I'm counting 3 dead at MY airline, not just the guy over 60. They ALL had families Laker. Yeah, you, Undaunted and Roman want to jump in here and manage the issue for the old guy imperative, I knew the 51 YO. His schedule the last 5 years was a train wreck. PBS and age 65 hit him hard and it showed. I would guess he put on 50-75 lbs in the last 5-6 years. We used to discuss possible ramifications of the age change, now we're seeing actual consequences. This change needed to include some balance in the seniority paradigm where everybody took a few months of reserve or worked a few weekends or something like that. Instead, what this rule was really about was taking the seniority bump. Just like the poster boy Undaunted made very clear for us. He didn't want the job if it didn't give him the seniority.


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[Flopgut]

The only thing that kept at least 50% of the legacy CAL guys flying past 60 was their great schedules. And in the case of my friend, his bad schedule was what more than likely what ultimately did him in.


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[Skyboy722]

If you have a condition that lends itself to early heart disease it will most likely show before 60. If you make it too 60 with no signs of heart disease than you most likely don't have a medical condition that would predispose you to an early heart attack. At least so the thinking goes.

I realize what you are saying about heart disease, but I am talking about ALL reasons for incapacitation and death, which is what really counts when you are talking about inflight incapacitation. The odds for those, as a whole, definitely do not decrease with age.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

And yet even BEFORE the body cools FI's spokesman for one-set-of-rules-for-me-and-a-different-set-of rules-for everyone-else has to chime in.

You're worse than anyone you would assail as "get out of my seat" and you're just as bad as any pilot who crossed a picket line. You're weak.

Flopgut:

What's your problem? I lost my pension and retired into poverty (PBGC and food stamps) at age-60 when I was perfectly healthy and could have flown for 5 more years helping my kid with his college tuition and providing for my family. You, on the other hand, will have 5 extra years to build up a real pension and provide for the expenses that every family man has. You are welcome for this bonus you never expected, but where's the thanks?

On the other hand, I had a career of 20-years flying sideways, 2 very long furloughs and my pension stolen and had ALPA (and you) doing everything they could to prevent me from working once my pension was lost. In your career, partly on account of my efforts, you will earn far more money than I every did. Where's the thanks.

And regarding crossing a picket line: I put it all on the line in '85 and have a "ALPA Battlestar" pin to prove it. I walked the line every day for 28 days to help prevent a "B" scale. What thanks do I get, just insults from the likes of you and others on this Board that know nothing of the facts.

How about you, what have you ever done for the airline pilot's professional cause? Pickup you paycheck? That's right, nothing but write insults on FI, as usual, right?

In any event, I love you my former colleague.

The courtesy of a reply would be appreciated.