Southwest Line on Credit?

[waveflyer]

In 2009 we made a record profit of $135 million dollars.

And still furloughed?

 

[HowardBorden]

You're comparing apples to coconuts, of course, because the CEOs of those carriers today are not the CEOs of those carriers then. By going back to 2004, you can measure Gary's effectiveness, or lack thereof, but not someone like Richard Anderson, because he wasn't running Delta at the time.

No, in 2004 Anderson wasn't running Delta, he was running Northwest racking up losses to the tune of $2 billion and 14,000 jobs lost. Kelly however has been at SWA since 1986. He has acted as controller, executive VP of finance and C.F.O. before becoming CEO. If you don't believe he was helping navigate the company during his tenure before becoming CEO, you don't understand what a CFO does. The CFO is responsible for the company's financial condition, so he must decide how to invest the company's money. A good CFO is able to project the long-term financial picture of the company and the company thrives or perishes based on his analyses.

Yes, that Richard Anderson. The one who bailed out for UHC because he didn't feel that bankruptcy was the right move.
You can "luv" your airline without feeling the need to defend the poor performance of your CEO. He's not your best buddy, you know.

Are you really that naive? You don't think that Northwest and Delta entering bankruptcy literally within hours of each other was not a coordinated move. You don't think it was all in the plan that Anderson would cut out prior to bankruptcy so as not to get his hands dirty during the process only to join the Delta Board of Directors as the sole outside director with previous day-to-day experience as an airline manager before being named as CEO? Your powers of deduction are stunning!

Of course Kelly is not my buddy, other than a passing handshake, I haven't even met the man. I don't need to defend him or chastise him because his record steering the largest domestic airline speaks for itself.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

I thought the thread was Southwest Line of Credit - how did it develop into a rant on AT pilots and how terrible they got treated - there is nothing like feeding the appetites of the SWA detractors and airing the views of a few disgruntled pilots

 

[jhill]

I heard SWA just got a one billion dollar line of credit!

 

[texman]

In 2009 we made a record profit of $135 million dollars.

You wouldn't of made that money if your contract passed in 2010. Don't forget that little 2 billion of debt that SWA absorbed too.

 

[RLAblows]

And still furloughed?

Furlough was 2008. Arguably the dumbest decision our BMT made. It lasted about 5 months.

 

[SWA/FO]

PCL = please don't come to Southwest. I would be very happy if you found something else to do. I wish you good luck with your Real Estate career.

 

[waveflyer]

Furlough was 2008. Arguably the dumbest decision our BMT made. It lasted about 5 months.

Ok- I got the year wrong- your company took hostages that your pilot group was powerless to stop, didn't have the relationship to stop, and then you come here and criticize SWA for how they treat you??

My point is not diminished.

 

[humveedriver]

Ok- I got the year wrong- your company took hostages that your pilot group was powerless to stop, didn't have the relationship to stop, and then you come here and criticize SWA for how they treat you??

My point is not diminished.

So.... it's The AT pilots fault that their management was draconian and abusive. Do you volunteer at a women's shelter by chance?

(Also to be fair; not all AT management was bad. Basically just the VP's involved with labor. SK, LB and JT . We had some very talented folks too and most of them found good jobs after the SWA/AT deal.)

 

[Ty Webb]

PCL = please don't come to Southwest. I would be very happy if you found something else to do. I wish you good luck with your Real Estate career.

Don't knock Real Estate . . . I probably made more in Real Estate last year than half of your pilots made flying airplanes. . . . Although much of that work was done by the charming and delightful Mrs. Webb.

Hell, I'd do it full time, if I didn't enjoy flying airplanes and telling lies on the radio so much. . . . . plus swilling beers with y'all on the layovers.

 

[waveflyer]

Hum, not at all your fault. Do you get that? I'm not putting an indictment on your pilot group for anything-
Just saying the SWA job was better and that's worth something in the SLI. Certainly a company's propensity to furlough is worthwhile to mention. Stability is an attribute of a quality job. No?

 

[jetflier]

Don't knock Real Estate . . . I probably made more in Real Estate last year than half of your pilots made flying airplanes. . . . Although much of that work was done by the charming and delightful Mrs. Webb.

Hell, I'd do it full time, if I didn't enjoy flying airplanes and telling lies on the radio so much. . . . . plus swilling beers with y'all on the layovers.

Hahahah now that's a good beoch slap

 

[humveedriver]

Hum, not at all your fault. Do you get that? I'm not putting an indictment on your pilot group for anything-
Just saying the SWA job was better and that's worth something in the SLI. Certainly a company's propensity to furlough is worthwhile to mention. Stability is an attribute of a quality job. No?

SWA is a larger, more established company than AT. There is no disputing that. What I think is lost on your side of the argument, is that every law passed concerning pilot SLI is inherently designed to protect the smaller groups interests. So it's easy for me to understand why you guys only want organic growth, because there are suppose to be laws that prevent larger organizations from abusing their competive advantage. Also, SWA is unique to every other airline from the no furlough and profit viewpoint. So using that metric, even Delta or United pilots would not be viewed as equals. The SLI debate was always about the retirement snapshot. SWAPA did what they did to keep the AT pilots from dominating the top of the list 20 years from now. That's really about it. Everything else is a distraction IMO.

 

[maxblast72]

No, wave, I just don't believe that any of that is going to lead to 15% ROIC.

You don't think 6 extra seats in all the -700s won't add up to a couple hundred million dollars in extra revenue per year? You don't think full codeshare capabilities (including the ability to take SWA customers to AirTran's international destinations) will add hundreds of millions of dollars of incremental revenue? You don't think replacing 117 seat aircraft with 175 seat aircraft that have very similar operating costs won't benefit the bottom line?

Last December, Gary Kelly laid out a roadmap to 15% ROIC for 2013 that depends on 4-5% RASM growth and $3.30 Jet A. So far this year, Jet A is a little cheaper than projected while revenue is coming in a little lighter than projected. As long as those two variables continue to move proportionally together, 15% (or very close to) is achievable for 2013.

You know what would? Ancillary fees. Gary is leaving tons of money on the table by not charging for bags. And it's costing shareholders a lot of money. I finally sold all of my shares a couple of weeks ago because I was tired of sitting around and waiting for someone to wake up and care about shareholder value.

SWA already charges for bags (overweight or third bag). Yes, SWA could generate revenue by charging for the first and second checked bag. However, SWA "steals" some customers from airlines that do charge for first and second checked bags. You of I will never have the data that Gary Kelly uses to determine whether he feels it would be good for SWA to charge for bags.

I finally sold all of my shares a couple of weeks ago because I was tired of sitting around and waiting for someone to wake up and care about shareholder value.

I have been purchasing $250/paycheck through the ESPP since February 2012. My only regret has been that I didn't go $500/paycheck. Haven't calculated my ROI yet, but it has to be over 30% when the ESPP discount is factored in.

 

[maxblast72]

In 2009 we made a record profit of $135 million dollars.

Unfortunately we lost $273 million in 2008 due to $4/gallon Jet A. If Jet A prices wouldn't have crashed in late 2008, our furloughed pilots would have spent a lot longer than 6 months out of the cockpit.

 

[Crash Pad]

Still going around on this when it is so obvious.... AirTran was the greatest airline in the history of aviation. We had XM radio! Boom, that just happened.

We charged for bags, yeah I said it.

We had business class. That's right the same class RJs have.

Now lets talk service... Harmonica on the PA, we got it. Gate agents that reinvented customer service, only at Airtran. FAs that treat you like gold, sorry Delta.

Now lets talk about our pilots. Each one was hand selected from the finest regionals, military, and defunct airlines on earth. All of us had multiple offers from DAL, UAL, FedEx, and NASA but AirTran was the obvious choice.

Once selected we went through the hardest interview on earth. It consisted of 3 to 5 HR questions that would make your brain explode. Then they try and break you with a training regimen that would make a navy seal puke.

SWA, DAL, and USAir drew straws in a secret meeting to see who would be allowed to buy Airtran. On our own it was clear we would become the next Emirates. SWA one the straw pull. The lucky straw has been plated in gold and sits on GKs mantle because it saved his career and SWA.

You're welcome SWA. You will feel two things the first time you are allowed to sit left seat with an AirTran pilot.
1. You will feel overwhelmed by his ability to make 737 do things you had only imagined.
2. You will feel a calm overcome you and a peace you had only read about in church. That is the awesome. It radiates from all of us.

I don't know why we have to keep explaining this.

 

[Ty Webb]

Unfortunately we lost $273 million in 2008 due to $4/gallon Jet A. If Jet A prices wouldn't have crashed in late 2008, our furloughed pilots would have spent a lot longer than 6 months out of the cockpit.

You can look at the history of either airline, and pull out the data you want in order to "prove" any dubious point you want to make. . . . and none of these "points" will change anyone's opinion. Neither side feels like they got a fair deal.

 

[scoreboardII]

Still going around on this when it is so obvious.... AirTran was the greatest airline in the history of aviation. We had XM radio! Boom, that just happened.

We charged for bags, yeah I said it.

We had business class. That's right the same class RJs have.

Now lets talk service... Harmonica on the PA, we got it. Gate agents that reinvented customer service, only at Airtran. FAs that treat you like gold, sorry Delta.

Now lets talk about our pilots. Each one was hand selected from the finest regionals, military, and defunct airlines on earth. All of us had multiple offers from DAL, UAL, FedEx, and NASA but AirTran was the obvious choice.

Once selected we went through the hardest interview on earth. It consisted of 3 to 5 HR questions that would make your brain explode. Then they try and break you with a training regimen that would make a navy seal puke.

SWA, DAL, and USAir drew straws in a secret meeting to see who would be allowed to buy Airtran. On our own it was clear we would become the next Emirates. SWA one the straw pull. The lucky straw has been plated in gold and sits on GKs mantle because it saved his career and SWA.

You're welcome SWA. You will feel two things the first time you are allowed to sit left seat with an AirTran pilot.
1. You will feel overwhelmed by his ability to make 737 do things you had only imagined.
2. You will feel a calm overcome you and a peace you had only read about in church. That is the awesome. It radiates from all of us.

I don't know why we have to keep explaining this.

youll fit right in, well done.

 

[waveflyer]

Nice

 

[redflyer65]

I have been purchasing $250/paycheck through the ESPP since February 2012. My only regret has been that I didn't go $500/paycheck. Haven't calculated my ROI yet, but it has to be over 30% when the ESPP discount is factored in.

Your absolutely right Max. I've been doing $400/month for years. And now it's really starting to pay off.

I'd say 15% is looking good for the year. You add in the early boarding feature and it's over the top. The early boarding fee could possibly bring in an additional 300-500 million a year. As long as oil stays low (and it's been dropping everyday the past week) the quarterly/yearly profits look really good.

PCL would have been wise to do the same thing.