Southwest Line on Credit?

[waveflyer]

Funny!



Because certainty is better than uncertainty. Having a negotiated list that was fair was a far superior alternative than going to arbitration where the outcome would be unknown. Unfortunately, it wasn't possible to achieve a fair outcome in negotiations, so the MEC decided that arbitration was the only possible avenue. It had nothing to do with delaying or poisoning any well. It was just an MEC doing their job: trying to get the best possible outcome for their members.



No, I don't disagree. I've said it before, in fact. The pilot group was so irrationally afraid after the public threats began that he could have stapled everyone, imposed a permanent B-scale, and prohibited captain upgrades for 20 years, and the pilots still would have voted for it. The level of fear was off the charts.



This is where you go off the reservation. Gary didn't pick this list based upon some complex formulation of what experts came up with. He picked this list because he believed it was the worst thing he could do to us and still not look like a monster. He wanted to continue being able to claim the "Golden Rule," and he thought this was the worst he could do and get away with it. He went a bit too far, though, because you'll have a hard time finding any AirTran pilot who doesn't burst out laughing when someone mentions the Golden Rule. AirTran pilots voted out of fear, nothing else. They'll never trust Gary, Mike, or SWA again. They'll never feel the way about SWA that you do. He shouldn't have pushed the envelope quite so far. Now he has a quarter of his pilot group who don't believe the SWA hype.



Yes, we've already established that you're delusional.



No thanks.

I'm the delusional one? You have a frank Lorenzo quote in your signature-
Telling.
And yeah- you're an arrogant kid aren't you- some of us have been around a while- and got started every bit as young as you w/o buying their first job- but it's irrelevant

I'm still asking the question you refuse to answer-
Lay it out- if losing on average 2.5 years of seniority wasn't fair, then what was?
Give details. What would the list have to look like in order for you not to be whining?

It's my opinion you would be poisoning the well in your ALPA loyalty even if swapa was stapled- prove me wrong- what did your FAIR list look like?

You're very clear that it was unfair- so what was fair then?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm the delusional one?

Yes.

I'm still asking the question you refuse to answer-
Lay it out- if losing on average 2.5 years of seniority wasn't fair, then what was?
Give details. What would the list have to look like in order for you not to be whining?

It's my opinion you would be poisoning the well in your ALPA loyalty even if swapa was stapled- prove me wrong- what did your FAIR list look like?

You're very clear that it was unfair- so what was fair then?

Actually, I've answered that question repeatedly. You just don't like the answer, so you keep repeating the question.

Fair: Ratio by category and status.

Acceptable: Anything determined by the neutral panel of arbitrators.

 

[27 driver]

I don't want relief either, I realize the ramifications. And I did bid and get what I wanted and am happy with that.

However, you stated that guys were training "now" to keep that 4th stripe as long as possible, and that is a false statement.

Why else would you bid back to the 717 then?

 

[Phlintstone]

To stay in Atlanta or Tampa...or at least on the east coast. There are many reasons.

Phred

 

[Citrusflyer]

Why else would you bid back to the 717 then?

At the time the bids were done, depending on seniority, an Atlanta base.

 

[PCL_128]

Why else would you bid back to the 717 then?

We have captains who bid back to 717 FO in order to stay in Atlanta. It's not all about captain seats.

 

[27 driver]

An ATL base was going to open anyway. I don't follow that argument. They could of stayed on the 737 and transitioned to ATL when they crossed. I don't believe for a second it wasn't about the 4'th stripe. I listen to many of them talk about going back to being an FO like its some form of disease. They actually say this to an FO. Like they are so much better. I hear it all the time.

 

[PCL_128]

An ATL base was going to open anyway. I don't follow that argument. They could of stayed on the 737 and transitioned to ATL when they crossed.

Um, yeah, because finally getting back to Atlanta in 10 years is just as good as being based here now.

 

[27 driver]

Um, yeah, because finally getting back to Atlanta in 10 years is just as good as being based here now.

There aren't that many RSW guys that want ATL. Either way there seniority will hold what it will hold. I won't keep my base either. I just get sick of hearing guys talking about being an FO like its some form of to leprosy. If all the Capt.'s would have voted no then you would have had your dream of arbitration. They didn't so we have what we have.

 

[redflyer65]

There aren't that many RSW guys that want ATL.

I agree 27driver. There maybe a handful of SW guys, but not huge numbers that will want ATL. I'm not one of them and I'm glad that our former AAI guys will have that option available. Obviously not every AAI pilot will be able to hold it, but I hope many do. More people driving to work the better.