Just like a 150...

[SSDD]

Landing in Denver yesterday next a UAX Dash 8, all of a sudden the thing turns sideways, I thought they'd had an engine failure and were going to lose control! Then I realized THEY WERE IN A FULL FORWARD SLIP!!!! Are you effing kidding me? I bet those pax really enjoyed that ride...

 

[FishandFly]

A dash 8 isn't even a swept wing. Slip or go-around and waste a hundred bucks in fuel? It's nice to know that there are some pilots out there who still know how to fly an airplane.

What amazes me is when you fly in a small plane with a "big" plane pilot. I flew with one heavy captain who took off the cessna with zero crosswind correction in 15kt winds...

 

[Oakum_Boy]

t-tail airplane. No biggie. I have to agree, many regional pilots have NO idea what a slip is, or how to make a simple crosswind landing. 250-hour schools being taught by 250-hour pilots. Garbage in- garbage out.

 

[LHRCrewDog]

The DHC-8 is a beast. I seem to remember "riding the elevator" which did not involve a forward slip but may have been a better maneuver to get down. But fear not, SSDD, the mighty Dash can handle just about anything, as long as speed is not a concern.

 

[CA1900]

If only it had large whirling discs that could be adjusted to increase drag...

 

[SSDD]

I'm not saying the airplane or the crew can't handle it, but we are in the passenger comfort business. So while fun for the crew, it can't be very comforting to the average passenger.

 

[jetlag7]

if only it had large whirling discs that could be adjusted to increase drag...

 

[FishandFly]

I'm not saying the airplane or the crew can't handle it, but we are in the passenger comfort business. So while fun for the crew, it can't be very comforting to the average passenger.

Ahh come on man.. Do you think grandma in 4a would have been closer to a heart attack seeing the runway for a few seconds or going around? Grandma did just fine.

I'm just annoyed by all the guys (fo and captain) who seem to never overcome the fact that the airplane (all of it) is completely under their control. My soapbox statement: it's an airplane... fly it.

 

[propsarebest]

If only it had large whirling discs that could be adjusted to increase drag...

Or smallish flap like things that pop out on the top of the wing...

 

[kf4amu]

Or smallish flap like things that pop out on the top of the wing...

Yea good thing the dash has flight spoilers

 

[cldsfr79]

A dash 8 isn't even a swept wing. Slip or go-around and waste a hundred bucks in fuel? It's nice to know that there are some pilots out there who still know how to fly an airplane.

If you left yourself to high and need to do a slip, that is poor airmanship. Forcing a landing because you think you can get the plane down is poor airmanship. Freaking out the pax over your mistake is poor airmanship.

Leave forward slips in your 172 days.

Airmanship involves planning, skill, and even making the correct decision to go around.

And if you get called into the CP office far spending to much money by doing a go-around, then you are working at a really sketchy place. A real airline has a no fault go around policy.

 

[imacdog]

A dash 8 isn't even a swept wing. Slip or go-around and waste a hundred bucks in fuel? It's nice to know that there are some pilots out there who still know how to fly an airplane.

Please tell me you aren't serious...

 

[Brasilia Pup]

If you left yourself to high and need to do a slip, that is poor airmanship. Forcing a landing because you think you can get the plane down is poor airmanship. Freaking out the pax over your mistake is poor airmanship.

Leave forward slips in your 172 days.

Airmanship involves planning, skill, and even making the correct decision to go around.

And if you get called into the CP office far spending to much money by doing a go-around, then you are working at a really sketchy place. A real airline has a no fault go around policy.

^^^ I agree.
You are in the airlines now. Act and fly like a professional. Safety first! Hot dog flying is best left to your off-the-clock flying.

 

[sunlitpath]

Ahh come on man.. Do you think grandma in 4a would have been closer to a heart attack seeing the runway for a few seconds or going around? Grandma did just fine.

I'm just annoyed by all the guys (fo and captain) who seem to never overcome the fact that the airplane (all of it) is completely under their control. My soapbox statement: it's an airplane... fly it.

How true it is...

 

[chqflyer]

If you left yourself to high and need to do a slip, that is poor airmanship. Forcing a landing because you think you can get the plane down is poor airmanship. Freaking out the pax over your mistake is poor airmanship.

Leave forward slips in your 172 days.

Airmanship involves planning, skill, and even making the correct decision to go around.

And if you get called into the CP office far spending to much money by doing a go-around, then you are working at a really sketchy place. A real airline has a no fault go around policy.

The company operating those Dash 8's IS a very sketchy company that does put subtle pressure on pilots to "git 'er dun".

 

[Kaman]

If you are in a situation where you have to slip a transport category airplane in revenue operations, you already screwed up by not electing to go around. I am not slamming the crew, but I think it showed poor judgement. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should...just sayin'

 

[chqflyer]

I completely agree. I'm not going to second guess the crew. We've all made dumb decisions for whatever reasons. I'm just saying that our company motto is "safety first, unless it costs money".

 

[Kaman]

So, this was Q?

 

[FishandFly]

In the crj it is a qrh procedure in cruise flight with no altitude restriction to accomplish gravity crossflow and you are telling me that increasing drag with a hershey bar wing is unsafe?

So, naysayers, what is the safety concern here?

 

[imacdog]

Wow, you really are serious about a forward slip to a landing in a transport category aircraft to be reasonable.

 

[FishandFly]

Uh yeah.. So long as they were above the altitude they are required to be stabilized by their manuals I see no issue. I understand that grandma may not understand the aerodynamics behind the forward slip, but I'm surprised it is seen as an extreme maneuver by any pilot who should understand the aerodynamics of it.

Tell me this, do you know why it is not a good idea in a swept wing?

 

[sstearns2]

Landing in Denver yesterday next a UAX Dash 8, all of a sudden the thing turns sideways, I thought they'd had an engine failure and were going to lose control! Then I realized THEY WERE IN A FULL FORWARD SLIP!!!! Are you effing kidding me? I bet those pax really enjoyed that ride...

A few years ago I watched a A340 enter a slip on short final landing on 25L LAX. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Scott

 

[sunlitpath]

Check this out. Basically, everyone is right under certain conditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosswind_landing

 

[sunlitpath]

I like the de-crab technique for the jet, particularly if I have been working with skanky flight attendants...

 

[camilogrillo]

As a passenger I'd feel a lot safer riding a plane with a pilot who knows how to control his plane, not just a button pusher, also being in a Dash 8 doing a side sleep, would probably made my day.

 

[imacdog]

Uh yeah.. So long as they were above the altitude they are required to be stabilized by their manuals I see no issue. I understand that grandma may not understand the aerodynamics behind the forward slip, but I'm surprised it is seen as an extreme maneuver by any pilot who should understand the aerodynamics of it.

Tell me this, do you know why it is not a good idea in a swept wing?

There's aerodynamics and there's good airmanship. I'm truly amazed to hear of people doing forward slips in a transport airplane. Extreme? No. Crappy piloting? Yes.

 

[Quimby]

t-tail airplane. No biggie. I have to agree, many pilots have NO idea what a slip is, or how to make a simple crosswind landing. 250-hour schools being taught by 250-hour pilots. Garbage in- garbage out.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Sam Snead]

A forward slip is totally unnecessary in a turboprop airplane. So much drag can be generated by the propellers that I suspect in a Dash 8 you would be descending at 2000+ FPM at flight idle, landing flaps, and Vref speed. Dash pilots, chime in.

If these pilots were truly doing a forward slip, they must have had some power applied or their descent rate would have been precipitous.

Also, why would you need to do anything to increase drag on a 10,000 foot runway in a Dash?

 

[booo]

I have not seen any evidence in this thread that this was a revenue flight so let us forget "ganny".

The drag created by two 13 foot pie plates mated to the wing at flight idle was awe inspiring.

Dash Program Manager was my check airman for my type ride. He was probably the finest dash 8 driver anyone could ever encounter. He could make it dance...Samba, Waltz, Cha-Cha, Makarena, Gangnam style.

In training, he did not expect perfection, just the use of basic airmanship skills that could be used to resolve the mess that you put yourself in. And the mighty Dash 8 could do anything that a Cessna 150 could and better. And he wanted to see that you could do it before he handed you a type rating in it. Confidence building for you, clear conscience for him. Nothing radical; he could make her dance, he wanted to make sure you could at least make her curtsy.

And what better time to do it, going into Denver, during the daylight hours, with 10,000+ feet of room to correct!

 

[FishandFly]

I'm just glad the guy knows how to control an airplane. There are so many people on the line who takeoff disregarding aerodynamics by failing to put in crosswind correction and yanking the plane off the ground, then wallow back and forth during the climbout because they are not looking out side or just have a equilibrium that is out of sync, then focus all their attention on that stupid little banana bar even if it runs them into a mountain.

Airmanship is comprised of both professionalism and being able to control your airplane with YOUR hands and feet.

Lastly, for those who think they would never perform a slip in a transport category airplane, do you realize that is how you land in a crosswind?