Pinnacle 1113 ruling set for this Thursday

[Flyer1015]

This is what I'm referencing:

For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no
pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a
Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain
129 Saab-340 captains. No pre-merger Mesaba pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position unless
Colgan pilots maintain 152 Saab-340 captains. Minimum
captain positions for Mesaba pilots will be permanently
reduced by an equal amount for any reductions in Saab
Captain positions in Minneapolis, Memphis, Detroit and
New York. Minimum captain positions for Colgan pilots will
be permanently reduced by an amount equal to any
reductions in Washington-Dulles, Boston, Charleston and​

Houston.

MY interpretation of that was that no Pinnacle pilot may be awarded a Saab captain position, and no Colgan pilot may be awarded a Saab captain position, unless Mesaba maintains xxx...

MY interpretation was that what the above is saying is that Pinnacle and Colgan pilots cannot get any Captain seats on the Saab until Mesaba maintains at least xxx......

Instead, what YOU Mesaba and Colgan pilots argued (and WON - because Hunta was nowhere to be seen and did not fight for 9E)............ you guys argued that the sentence reads "no Pinnacle pilot may be awarded Saab Captain, and..." and that somehow that means 9E can't get ANY Saab captain positions.

And that's what happened. We had 2007 DOH Captains get downgraded while Colgan got their May 2010 DOH precious upgrades on the Saab.


In that above, you Mesaba people made a very fine point to exclude Pinnacle pilots from Saab captain positions BASED ON EXACT WORDING BY BLOCH.

So why is EXACT WORDING BY BLOCH not applying to the CRJ-900 ratios?

Amazing how when the tables turn, Mesaba is scrambling in their corners and DEMANDING that the Saab reduction methodology be applied to the jet reductions, EVEN THOUGH BLOCH MADE NO EXPLICIT INSTRUCTIONS OR RULING ON JET REDUCTIONS.

You're trying to have cake and eat it too. I hope 9E gets what's FAIR, which is a ratio of 279:95 because there is no explicit words from Bloch regarding reducing Pinnacle protected Captain positions. But until Hunta steps down and someone much better steps in, I fully expect Mesaba to win this.

 

[Flyer1015]

9E ATL pilots, make sure you get some accountability from the people who are supposed to represent you. If you don't, the mentality displayed by xjhawk will most likely prevail, and you will be screwed.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

How's that contract over at VA? Sheesh, you left, myob! You're as bad as PCL_128 bragging he'll still pay ALPA dues after SWA takes over!

 

[1.3XVso]

Flyer just give it up. Explaining to these idiottts is like arguing with a liberal (smarta$$). Honestly with your IQ and intellectual brain you should have volunteer and represent the pilot group. You have showed and explain the truth. It's obvious they can't handle it and find a way to cheap shot you. It's funny how now they are comparing you to pcl128! Lol there running out of things to throw at you!

 

[FOrever85]

How long did it take you to write all this crap? Doesn't it bother you how much time and energy you waste on a company you don't work for?

Second, why would anyone at Pinnacle try and undo this at this point. They have nothing to gain and even more to lose.
But I'm bored so I'll play along;

Let's say they throw the Bloch award out. (which they aren't going to do because they have a million other things to do) Let's take a minute and see what would happen.
1) Alpa wastes thousands of dollars re-doing the list (eating steak diners, staying in nice hotels, etc), and it distracts them from getting a decent new contract, or should I say "less screwed" in bankruptcy
2) They find another arbitrator and spend another couple of months making a new one.
Now, What do you think Colgan and Pinnacle are going to look like in a couple of months when they do the new list?
Colgan is gone, 9e 900's gone, x number of 200's (probably gone)

Now where do you think Pinnacle guys are gonna end up in this new list? Oh, and by the way look who is running the MEC now.

Use your brain! As bad as some 9e guys got it last time, this would be way worse.
But it is all moot because they aren't going to do anything about it!

Now go put your time and energy into making your airline better.

 

[mesaba13]

I agree that Bloch does not mention a jet fleet reductions but he states this: "no pre-merger Pinnacle or Colgan pilot may be AWARDED or DISPLACED to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 279 CRJ-900 captain positions, and no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Pinnacle pilots maintain 95 CRJ-900 captain positions."

I don't see how a pre-merger 9E pilot will be able to move to a 900 CA position under the above wording by Bloch unless Mesaba is at or over 279. By the same reasoning a pre-merger Mesaba pilot that is on a 200 now, will not be able to go to a 900 CA spot because 9E is going well below 95. "no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Pinnacle pilots maintain 95 CRJ-900 captain positions."


The ratio will come into play when attrition or further 900 fleet reduction on the pre-merger Mesaba 900 occurs and takes us below 279 positions. Now BOTH groups are below the quotas and awards/displacements would be by ratio 279:95. So if Mesaba is at 250 and 9E is at 0, the 29 positions would be awarded by the ratio. I am not sure how many numbers above 279 we are at now, but it seems with this language that we will go below it soon and from here on in new movements will be a ratio.

If you work it the other way and say that Delta decided to pull all the XJ
900's and keep ATL, the 9E ATL guys would have been protected. As the XJ spots are reduced, no displacements or awards to ATL could occur unless ATL maintained 95 premerger 9E positions. Now, if ATL is later shrunk and goes below 95 then both groups would be below the 279 and 95 and the ratio would take effect.

The part that I am sure seems unfair to the 9E group is that 100% of the
900's leaving, left from a base that is almost all 9E. If 16 planes were pulled that said XJ on the tail, the pain would be spread a little more evenly and wouldn't impact one group so heavily.

 

[mesaba13]

"I don't see how a pre-merger 9E pilot will be able to move to a 900 CA position under the above wording by Bloch unless Mesaba is at or over 279"

This was partly misleading because some Senior premerger 9E pilots will end up "moving" from ATL CA into junior pre-merger 9E 900 CA positions in MSP, DTW, MEM. Albeit, only to the point where XJ stays above 279. So the previous posts that say 9E will end up with zero 900 CA positions are incorrect.

 

[Flyer1015]

mesaba13 gets it. FOforever85, you should be pushing to have someone dedicated and knowledgeable in addressing issues that affect an airline. If I was on the merger committee, things would have gone differently. And I certainly wouldn't have ignored a letter by Pat who desperately needs to know what to do about the Bloch quotas.

1.3xVs, you're right. I do hope they recall and replace those who are incompetent and love spending 9E union dues. But there's no point arguing with people over all this stuff.

 

[gojo]

Flyer just give it up. Explaining to these idiottts is like arguing with a liberal (smarta$$). Honestly with your IQ and intellectual brain you should have volunteer and represent the pilot group. You have showed and explain the truth. It's obvious they can't handle it and find a way to cheap shot you. It's funny how now they are comparing you to pcl128! Lol there running out of things to throw at you!

Whatever!!! You guys should put your money where your mouth is. It's so easy to complain about things. Ever thought about being part of the solution? Have you ever tried to do the job that those guys do? If I remember right, both of you were plenty vocal about wanting to bend over the Mesaba and Colgan pilot groups. It seems that your Hunter union rep was just trying to give you what you wanted. Hey, I don't like him either. But the bullys don't always get their way. And now it is what it is. Get over it. Now all three pilot groups have lost airplanes and captain slots, and that's something that many said would probably happen over two years ago. I didn't think it would be 900's though

 

[Flyer1015]

Whatever!!! You guys should put your money where your mouth is. It's so easy to complain about things. Ever thought about being part of the solution? Have you ever tried to do the job that those guys do? If I remember right, both of you were plenty vocal about wanting to bend over the Mesaba and Colgan pilot groups. It seems that your Hunter union rep was just trying to give you what you wanted. Hey, I don't like him either. But the bullys don't always get their way. And now it is what it is. Get over it. Now all three pilot groups have lost airplanes and captain slots, and that's something that many said would probably happen over two years ago. I didn't think it would be 900's though

If there was a way to resurrect the old airlinkpilots forum, and search my post history, you will see I was always against a full outright staple for Colgan. In fact, I started a thread back then saying how relative would hurt us and that Colgan would make out like kings, and so that DOH would do us better. The merger committee got my thread shutdown, like some kinda gag order. Hunta fought for only the top brass. He completely attempted to screw Colgan. Hunta's worst fear was the -900 group becoming it's own category, and that's exactly what happened. The 9E committee never polled the pilot group on what they wanted. I volunteered years ago after my 1st year. They held the position out for one of their own boys in their club.