some reported united contract details

[Continental]

Zero stock (DALPA 5%=$37K/pilot, APA 13.5% = $100K)
$400M retro pay – avg. $34,000/pilot (DALPA: 2 on-time contracts = 100% retro)
UALPA determine allocation of L-UAL’s $225M retro cut (2/3 on eff date, 1/3 @ SLI)

Pay bands
• A380 (will never order 1)
• 747, A350, 777, 787, 767-400
• 767-300, 767-200, 757-300
• 757-200, 737-900/800, A320/321
• 737-700/500, A319
• EMB-190 (will probably order plenty..why no CRJ900)

Pay rates
• 2013: DAL - 8.5%
• 2014: DAL - 3%
• 2015: DAL - 3%
• 2016: DAL + 0%
• 2017: DAL + 3% (3% pay raise the day before the amendable date)

Amendable 1/1/17 (4-year CBA) (DALPA amendable 1/1/16 (3.5-year CBA))
16% B/C plan + frozen CAL A-plan (DALPA 15% B/C plan + frozen NW A-plan)
Premium pay for forced junior manning
Voluntary movable domestic RDOs for higher guarantee
Minimum 5 hours credit time/calendar day
Same Int’l override as DALPA
Long-term disability plan: pilot-financed $1-2/flight hour, max $97,000/year benefit
CAL PBS system, UA trip-trading system
CAL vacation system
3.25 hours/vacation day
2 less days of vacation for most senior pilots
No more credit time for vacation drops
3/3.25 hours/training day (<5/>5 day training period)
Significant concessions on hotel rights from UA CBA
New alt. dispute resolution philosophy of “mutually agree,” “company discretion”
Traditional medical plan: UA/CAL hybrid w/ higher out of pocket pilot expenses
HMO plans suffer a significant increase in out of pocket pilot cost
Trip rigs: 4 to 1 now & 3.5 to 1 on 1/1/14 which DALPA has had for years
Scope: similar to DALPA, arguably a little more restrictive on SJs
UAX flies SJs up to 88,000 lbs MTOGW (DALPA up to 223 76 seat SJs, 450 ttl)
UAX EMB-175s & CRJ-900 w/ 76 seats

Also training on days off still..
Scheduling can deny "fake" DH at beginning/ending of pairing
guarantee 70 hours (currently 76 short call / 72 long call)
can roll days off up to 6 for intl pilots (which everyone is)

United really is the sleaziest, lowest scum of the earth airline. This is after 4 years from scab/mgt want2be negotiating our contract. I can only hope the LUAL guys can see through the crowd of cowardly scabs on their knees over here and vote this POS down if it comes to pass.

CAL worst career decision...EVER

 

[Jar Jar]

The Delta comparison out to 2017 isn't even accurate because if the current trend holds they will have another new contract in 2015.. If UCAL tries to sell this on "We'll match Delta by 2016" they're full of it.

 

[Continental]

they have always been full of it. The ones negotiating our contract have no intention of working under it. They will be off in a corner office in Chicago

 

[johnsonrod]

Just say no to Slimdick! That guy is a total putz. Just say NO.

 

[Billsflyer]

Zero stock (DALPA 5%=$37K/pilot, APA 13.5% = $100K)
$400M retro pay – avg. $34,000/pilot (DALPA: 2 on-time contracts = 100% retro)
UALPA determine allocation of L-UAL’s $225M retro cut (2/3 on eff date, 1/3 @ SLI)

Pay bands
• A380 (will never order 1)
• 747, A350, 777, 787, 767-400
• 767-300, 767-200, 757-300
• 757-200, 737-900/800, A320/321
• 737-700/500, A319
• EMB-190 (will probably order plenty..why no CRJ900)

Pay rates
• 2013: DAL - 8.5%
• 2014: DAL - 3%
• 2015: DAL - 3%
• 2016: DAL + 0%
• 2017: DAL + 3% (3% pay raise the day before the amendable date)

Amendable 1/1/17 (4-year CBA) (DALPA amendable 1/1/16 (3.5-year CBA))
16% B/C plan + frozen CAL A-plan (DALPA 15% B/C plan + frozen NW A-plan)
Premium pay for forced junior manning
Voluntary movable domestic RDOs for higher guarantee
Minimum 5 hours credit time/calendar day
Same Int’l override as DALPA
Long-term disability plan: pilot-financed $1-2/flight hour, max $97,000/year benefit
CAL PBS system, UA trip-trading system
CAL vacation system
3.25 hours/vacation day
2 less days of vacation for most senior pilots
No more credit time for vacation drops
3/3.25 hours/training day (<5/>5 day training period)
Significant concessions on hotel rights from UA CBA
New alt. dispute resolution philosophy of “mutually agree,” “company discretion”
Traditional medical plan: UA/CAL hybrid w/ higher out of pocket pilot expenses
HMO plans suffer a significant increase in out of pocket pilot cost
Trip rigs: 4 to 1 now & 3.5 to 1 on 1/1/14 which DALPA has had for years
Scope: similar to DALPA, arguably a little more restrictive on SJs
UAX flies SJs up to 88,000 lbs MTOGW (DALPA up to 223 76 seat SJs, 450 ttl)
UAX EMB-175s & CRJ-900 w/ 76 seats

Also training on days off still..
Scheduling can deny "fake" DH at beginning/ending of pairing
guarantee 70 hours (currently 76 short call / 72 long call)
can roll days off up to 6 for intl pilots (which everyone is)

United really is the sleaziest, lowest scum of the earth airline. This is after 4 years from scab/mgt want2be negotiating our contract. I can only hope the LUAL guys can see through the crowd of cowardly scabs on their knees over here and vote this POS down if it comes to pass.

CAL worst career decision...EVER

This has to be a fake. There is no way that after this long , this is what they came up with.

Please tell me that this is a joke.

 

[Continental]

I wish I could...I suggest if your Lcal or LUal you let your reps know what you demand. Nothing less.

 

[goahead]

Fak no

 

[list2002]

That's an easy NO. Training on days off alone seals it for me.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

"why no CRJ900"

Because it is a piece of garbage that customers hate.

Bob

 

[Ex737Driver]

Give up vacation days, higher medical costs, zero stock, UAL trip trades, and pissant retro. if this pile is true and this passes both MECS, ALPA can kiss it goodbye. Excuse me, I have to take a smiseck.

 

[JUNK YARD DOG]

Give up vacation days, higher medical costs, zero stock, UAL trip trades, and pissant retro. if this pile is true and this passes both MECS, ALPA can kiss it goodbye. Excuse me, I have to take a smiseck.

And Kiss ALPA goodbye as well!!!!!!

 

[wild bill kelso]

The only hold up on this piece of garbage is the L-United guys think they deserve a bigger share of the retro pay than L-Cal. Not only NO! but FU<K NO!! Aint gonna happen.

 

[ATRCA]

The only hold up on this piece of garbage is the L-United guys think they deserve a bigger share of the retro pay than L-Cal. Not only NO! but FU<K NO!! Aint gonna happen.

They have more pilots. If everyone got the same bonus amount, than L-UAL would get a larger "piece" of the retro.

Easy.

 

[nwaredtail]

They have more pilots. If everyone got the same bonus amount, than L-UAL would get a larger "piece" of the retro.

Easy.

No dog in the fight, BUT, if it's true the CAL folks have been being paid at a higher rate/higher overall package, then I see no reason not to give the UAL folks a bigger % of the retro pie, if there is any, to make everyone even over the period with no contract.

 

[wms]

"why no CRJ900"

Because it is a piece of garbage that customers hate.

Bob

The -700/-900 w/first class is a descent plane the problem is the UAL CRJ product (Cp. DAL).

That said, the e-190 has full size seats and overheads and is a better product for customer service. The problem still remains, that if they're flown for UAL the product will still be the pits.

 

[Flopgut]

No dog in the fight, BUT, if it's true the CAL folks have been being paid at a higher rate/higher overall package, then I see no reason not to give the UAL folks a bigger % of the retro pie, if there is any, to make everyone even over the period with no contract.

FYI: CAL pilots are 4 years past amendable date. UAL pilots are 3...

 

[eaglesview]

I'll vote no on pay banding alone. 767 pays the same as a 747....give me a break...just an attempted seniority grab by CAL. Same ole pilot group.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I'm not sure of the whole rationale of paying less than DAL. The rates should be DAL+ on DOS.

 

[Flopgut]

I'll vote no on pay banding alone. 767 pays the same as a 747....give me a break...just an attempted seniority grab by CAL. Same ole pilot group.

You're crazier than a pet coon, but at least you're going to vote no...

 

[eaglesview]

You're crazier than a pet coon, but at least you're going to vote no...

To be honest I wrote that just for you. You didn't take the bait....well played. If post number one is accurate it will be a no vote.

 

[densoo]

No dog in the fight, BUT, if it's true the CAL folks have been being paid at a higher rate/higher overall package, then I see no reason not to give the UAL folks a bigger % of the retro pie, if there is any, to make everyone even over the period with no contract.

Overall package nearly the same. CAL higher pay, UAL better workrules, lower medical premiums, higher B contribution. See MIT Total Pilot Cost.

The 2011 number is obviously bogus but you can see from 2005-2010 it is 3% or less difference.

If retro is only on wages then UAL should get more than CAL although it would be less than a straight difference because retro would be based on 3 years of backpay for UAL but 4 years of backpay for CAL. This may be the argument UAL leaned on when they asked for a 70/30 split of the $400m (or was it 80/20). Plus UAL has more pilots.

If retro is based on the "overall package" then the retro split would favor CAL since UAL and CAL are nearly equal in the overall pilot cost but CAL has an extra year of packpay due, although this would be mitigated somewhat by UAL having more pilots.

It appears that the arbitrator just split it by simple numbers of pilots in each group, $225m to UAL, $175m to CAL, a 56%/44% split, just about the same split as the total pilots in each group.

Bottom line, it's a no vote without 100% retro to 100% of the UAL pilots and 100% of the CAL pilots.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Who cares what the retro payout looks like and who gets what percentage---this TA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! If this gets past our MECs, it will be time to clean house! WAFJ this is after 4 years of negotiations....... I can't believe the clowns on the NC even brought this to our MECs. PATHETIC.

 

[HA25]

so if this is true, we're lowering the bar from HAL's 2010 contract rather than raising the bar from DAL's 2012? I'm not buying it... no way the MEC is even considering sending this out for a vote.

not with the looming pilot shortage and all as the WSJ is telling us today.

 

[Flopgut]

The whole thing is an abject failure (it would appear), but let me highlight one item for my L-UAL bretheren, and for anyone who thinks they would like to work for this sheethole: Mgt desires the right to deny a fake deadhead. There won't be a time in this airline's history [merger] when that would make a bigger difference to your QOL, and they want to take it. That is pure hate; That's the Lorenzo stink that hangs over continenetal. Wont cost them a thing, they simply want to control you, take your time away from you, and try ruin your life.

My rep looked at this and said some of it's true and some of it's false. My gut tells me the MECs don't want to pass it but there is probably some sort of threat or intimidation being brought by the NMB.

 

[eaglesview]

The whole thing is an abject failure (it would appear), but let me highlight one item for my L-UAL bretheren, and for anyone who thinks they would like to work for this sheethole: Mgt desires the right to deny a fake deadhead. There won't be a time in this airline's history [merger] when that would make a bigger difference to your QOL, and they want to take it. That is pure hate; That's the Lorenzo stink that hangs over continenetal. Wont cost them a thing, they simply want to control you, take your time away from you, and try ruin your life.

My rep looked at this and said some of it's true and some of it's false. My gut tells me the MECs don't want to pass it but there is probably some sort of threat or intimidation being brought by the NMB.

What's a fake deadhead?

Why are the CO reps leaking stuff out?

 

[Flopgut]

Example: When L-UAL took IAH-Lima from L-CAL, the trip started and ended with a DH from ORD. CAL contract would provide the option to "fake" DH for a pilot who lived in Houston to fly the trip and skip going to ORD on either end. What CAL mgt wants is to force that pilot to commute to ORD and sit on the airplane for both DHs. It's their way of having more pilots they can reassign or have as reseerves. As we all adjust and wait to be advanced to our new BESs, this will be a huge issue.

IMHO: The CAL MEC is leaking info because something is about to go haywire. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't doubt it if jeff tries to get this contract imposed by Congress. Or something outside the box like that.

 

[wms]

CAL PBS would be the deal-breaker for me, as well as fake dhd. It's mgmt controlling lives for the sake of control.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I'll vote no on pay banding alone. 767 pays the same as a 747....give me a break...just an attempted seniority grab by CAL. Same ole pilot group.

I'll take the bait. Currently a 767-400 pays $2/hr more than a 747. So what's wrong with them paying the same in the future? However like Flop said, no one cares what your motivation to vote no is, as long as you do vote no!

 

[eaglesview]

Example: When L-UAL took IAH-Lima from L-CAL, the trip started and ended with a DH from ORD. CAL contract would provide the option to "fake" DH for a pilot who lived in Houston to fly the trip and skip going to ORD on either end. What CAL mgt wants is to force that pilot to commute to ORD and sit on the airplane for both DHs. It's their way of having more pilots they can reassign or have as reseerves. As we all adjust and wait to be advanced to our new BESs, this will be a huge issue.

IMHO: The CAL MEC is leaking info because something is about to go haywire. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't doubt it if jeff tries to get this contract imposed by Congress. Or something outside the box like that.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Whine Lover]

How Sad...This airline and this industry have become.

Do people REALLY apply to work their anymore?

Seriously.


YKW