some reported united contract details

[densoo]

No dog in the fight, BUT, if it's true the CAL folks have been being paid at a higher rate/higher overall package, then I see no reason not to give the UAL folks a bigger % of the retro pie, if there is any, to make everyone even over the period with no contract.

Overall package nearly the same. CAL higher pay, UAL better workrules, lower medical premiums, higher B contribution. See MIT Total Pilot Cost.

The 2011 number is obviously bogus but you can see from 2005-2010 it is 3% or less difference.

If retro is only on wages then UAL should get more than CAL although it would be less than a straight difference because retro would be based on 3 years of backpay for UAL but 4 years of backpay for CAL. This may be the argument UAL leaned on when they asked for a 70/30 split of the $400m (or was it 80/20). Plus UAL has more pilots.

If retro is based on the "overall package" then the retro split would favor CAL since UAL and CAL are nearly equal in the overall pilot cost but CAL has an extra year of packpay due, although this would be mitigated somewhat by UAL having more pilots.

It appears that the arbitrator just split it by simple numbers of pilots in each group, $225m to UAL, $175m to CAL, a 56%/44% split, just about the same split as the total pilots in each group.

Bottom line, it's a no vote without 100% retro to 100% of the UAL pilots and 100% of the CAL pilots.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Who cares what the retro payout looks like and who gets what percentage---this TA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! If this gets past our MECs, it will be time to clean house! WAFJ this is after 4 years of negotiations....... I can't believe the clowns on the NC even brought this to our MECs. PATHETIC.

 

[HA25]

so if this is true, we're lowering the bar from HAL's 2010 contract rather than raising the bar from DAL's 2012? I'm not buying it... no way the MEC is even considering sending this out for a vote.

not with the looming pilot shortage and all as the WSJ is telling us today.

 

[Flopgut]

The whole thing is an abject failure (it would appear), but let me highlight one item for my L-UAL bretheren, and for anyone who thinks they would like to work for this sheethole: Mgt desires the right to deny a fake deadhead. There won't be a time in this airline's history [merger] when that would make a bigger difference to your QOL, and they want to take it. That is pure hate; That's the Lorenzo stink that hangs over continenetal. Wont cost them a thing, they simply want to control you, take your time away from you, and try ruin your life.

My rep looked at this and said some of it's true and some of it's false. My gut tells me the MECs don't want to pass it but there is probably some sort of threat or intimidation being brought by the NMB.

 

[eaglesview]

The whole thing is an abject failure (it would appear), but let me highlight one item for my L-UAL bretheren, and for anyone who thinks they would like to work for this sheethole: Mgt desires the right to deny a fake deadhead. There won't be a time in this airline's history [merger] when that would make a bigger difference to your QOL, and they want to take it. That is pure hate; That's the Lorenzo stink that hangs over continenetal. Wont cost them a thing, they simply want to control you, take your time away from you, and try ruin your life.

My rep looked at this and said some of it's true and some of it's false. My gut tells me the MECs don't want to pass it but there is probably some sort of threat or intimidation being brought by the NMB.

What's a fake deadhead?

Why are the CO reps leaking stuff out?

 

[Flopgut]

Example: When L-UAL took IAH-Lima from L-CAL, the trip started and ended with a DH from ORD. CAL contract would provide the option to "fake" DH for a pilot who lived in Houston to fly the trip and skip going to ORD on either end. What CAL mgt wants is to force that pilot to commute to ORD and sit on the airplane for both DHs. It's their way of having more pilots they can reassign or have as reseerves. As we all adjust and wait to be advanced to our new BESs, this will be a huge issue.

IMHO: The CAL MEC is leaking info because something is about to go haywire. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't doubt it if jeff tries to get this contract imposed by Congress. Or something outside the box like that.

 

[wms]

CAL PBS would be the deal-breaker for me, as well as fake dhd. It's mgmt controlling lives for the sake of control.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I'll vote no on pay banding alone. 767 pays the same as a 747....give me a break...just an attempted seniority grab by CAL. Same ole pilot group.

I'll take the bait. Currently a 767-400 pays $2/hr more than a 747. So what's wrong with them paying the same in the future? However like Flop said, no one cares what your motivation to vote no is, as long as you do vote no!

 

[eaglesview]

Example: When L-UAL took IAH-Lima from L-CAL, the trip started and ended with a DH from ORD. CAL contract would provide the option to "fake" DH for a pilot who lived in Houston to fly the trip and skip going to ORD on either end. What CAL mgt wants is to force that pilot to commute to ORD and sit on the airplane for both DHs. It's their way of having more pilots they can reassign or have as reseerves. As we all adjust and wait to be advanced to our new BESs, this will be a huge issue.

IMHO: The CAL MEC is leaking info because something is about to go haywire. Idk, maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't doubt it if jeff tries to get this contract imposed by Congress. Or something outside the box like that.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Whine Lover]

How Sad...This airline and this industry have become.

Do people REALLY apply to work their anymore?

Seriously.


YKW

 

[General Lee]

I'll take the bait. Currently a 767-400 pays $2/hr more than a 747. So what's wrong with them paying the same in the future? However like Flop said, no one cares what your motivation to vote no is, as long as you do vote no!

I agree. It's not fair to place one plane (744) highest on the totem pole if the CAL guys (who don't have 744s) can't get on it due to a possible fence (5 years at DL). So, give highest pay to 777s and 744s, something both have. I suspect though that UAL has 40 777s and 25 744s, while CAL has FEWER of those (maybe 50 777s, but they are getting 787s). So, to EVEN IT OUT, I suspect CAL threw in their 20 or so 764s. Maybe it's a numbers game? But, that is GREAT that a lot of planes could get TOP PAY. That means more people get top pay, and maybe not as much of a need to upgrade to the largest plane. Everyone wins, including management.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[cal 73]

!!! CAL MEC !!!

Vote this down!! Do not even bring this to us!!

CAL 73 fo iah

 

[Ex737Driver]

ual trip trade rules? Wtfo? Talk about lowering quality of life for both line holders and reserves. Huge hit. Take reserves down to 70 from 76 hours and it now concessionary on top on concessions. Take 2 days of vacation away? More concessions. Piss the hell off. :uzi:

 

[Flopgut]

I agree. It's not fair to place one plane (744) highest on the totem pole if the CAL guys (who don't have 744s) can't get on it due to a possible fence (5 years at DL). So, give highest pay to 777s and 744s, something both have.

Or, let's give top pay to airplane NEITHER airline has!! Post one shows the A380 as the top airplane pay scale... This is just absurd enough to make sense, I'm afraid, and makes me fear the whole damn post is right! This looks exactly like the kind of thing a CAL mgt negotiator would write. God help us. We have a LOT bigger problems than I ever imagined we might at this point. If some of these bulletpoints were accompanied by a HUGE aircraft [mainline] order, or the CAL 50 seat scope clause, or 20% of the company, or full retro, or SOMETHING like that, it might be closer. We've far eclipsed the reasonable call for patience that we have answered. There literally is not one good rumor about this deal. If it is indeed bad, everybody has to go. Recall everyone of them!

 

[Continental]

if it is indeed bad, everybody has to go. Recall everyone of them!

bingo!

 

[KarmaPolice]

What is the logic of DAL minus 8.5%? I thought ours was a slap in the face. You guys should get DAL minus a dollar MINIMUM. RIGHT? Am I missing something?

 

[XJTAv8r]

The TA just passed both MECs. It's now going to be sent out to the pilots for a vote.

 

[Continental]

time to recall those spineless MFers that voted for this.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

The TA just passed both MECs. It's now going to be sent out to the pilots for a vote.

GD MFer's!!! So does anyone know newhire pay, QOL, upgrade time at Skywest? :angryfire

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

BTW "that other forum" that our union leadership loves to hate is now down, says internal server error. Cyberattack by ALPA?