NJASAPs Lack of Representation Regarding Furloughed Pilots

[OPECJet]

I state "pilots" rather than "members" based on the recent exclusion of furloughed pilots from the life insurance offer. Every email I received stated it was open to NJASAP members. When queried, union leadership responded furloughed pilots were excluded from the offering because they were concerned adding the furloughed pilots to the list given to the insurance company would decrease the likelihood of reaching the required participation level.

Second. Unaware to most of us until reading it on the NJASAP website, bargaining surveys were distributed. Unless you are a furloughed pilot of course. The Association obviously has no regard about what the concerns of furloughed pilots are.

We already have beaten to death the message board issue. We were locked out of it, then lied to about the reasons.

I'm posting this in hopes that you active guys will make a little noise on our behalf. When the furlough happened the Association did a fine job in some regards. Since then, they have dropped the ball completely in my opinion. I have NEVER been more disappointed in a union in my career. I have little doubt at some point you will be given the chance to sell us down the river, I.E. USAir, United, etc.

Of recalls ever occur, NJASAP has driven a wedge into the furloughed group I doubt will ever be overcome. Action needs to be taken to ensure representation on at least some level for all members. Not just the ones still working.

 

[Sparse]

Pilots eat their young and throw their old off the cliffs. Just ask any retired delta, united, or us air pilot. If you don't pay dues, heaven help you.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Just ask any retired delta, united, or us air pilot.

At NJA, that would be the old, greedy f*cker sitting to your left. SCARING you and pax...

 

[billybob]

OPEC,
Put me down for " what he said". I have not gotten a word from anyone over there except a few of my friends. One are two are active in the union and are working on this but get nothing. I know who put me on the street but I also know who is F$$$ing now that I'm out here. Thanks looking forward to my B-day email.

 

[jtf]

I agree the furloughed have not gotten much love from the eboard. However, the new eboard member who created the bargaining survey claimed he sent then to the furloughed pilots also. He said the union has 2900 email addresses on file- around 200 active or furloughed members then are not on the list for whatever reason. I suggest making sure your email is on the list and calling to have then send you the survey. The new insurance offering is also pretty week, but better than the company offered one. I and many others have done better recently using services like PIC Life or Zander Insurance to find life insurance.

 

[jegermeister]

Second. Unaware to most of us until reading it on the NJASAP website, bargaining surveys were distributed. Unless you are a furloughed pilot of course.

That's simply not true. I received and completed a survey last week.

 

[OPECJet]

Haven't seen one in my
mailbox, electronic or otherwise. I get everything else from the union.

 

[Dgpr]

I've been getting the Compass when it comes out, but I've gotten squat lately from them... why am I not surprised.

The longer this thing goes on, the more convinced I am that we 495 (or whatever is left of us) will be sold down the road at the next negotiation.

 

[jegermeister]

As far as the survey goes, I don't believe it's been sent to everyone (furloughed or not). 60 percent seems to ring a bell?

Getting sold down the river is a very real scenario. Many of the guys that are still on the property don't feel we should have ever been hired. I was told this first hand by one them just before I left. In his mind, we had been hired for future growth that the company should have seen was not going to happen. I'm sure that same group would gladly give up our recall rights for a better bargaining position.

Think about it. Do you really think management wants 495 people to go through to fill an open seat? The most junior guy on the list if recalled today would be going on 5th year f/o pay. Add another 5 years (ten year f/o pay) and we've become very expensive compared to a year #1 guy.

I hope I'm wrong, but my gut doesn't feel good about this upcoming contract.

 

[jtf]

I seriously doubt recall rights will be bargained away. With the way we have been shrinking and with continued contraction likely, I've talked to many captains who have been making contingency plans in case further shrinkage gets to them. There isn't an sic who would vote for it since most of us feel that it's about a coin flip as to whether or not there is another furlough. I honestly believe the only way we won't furlough more is if attrition picks up with a bunch of guys leaving for the airlines. I've talked to quite a few guys with applications elsewhere and with a few who have interviewed or are in the process now.

 

[RJ Bum]

My guess is that recall rights will remain but longevity will be gone or frozen similar to UAL. He's right, we are way too expensive to recall and NJASAP can use that as negotiation power...

 

[Flightbag]

Your in house union at NJ has no legal obligation to represent a pilot who does not work there. That's the law.

Having said that, I feel just as strongly the union has a moral obligation to take the furloughees into consideration with any agreements they may enter into with management.

Flightbag

 

[jetlag7]

I'm sorry to hear some of ya'll have such little faith in the fortitude of our group.

Believe me when I say it will be a cold day in Hell before anyone gets "sold down the river."

There are a great number of us who would rather let Uncle Warren lock the doors right before we BTMFD than let that happen.

 

[OPECJet]

Jetlag, it's not a loss of faith in the pilot group, it's a lack of trust in the union leadership.

 

[jetlag7]

Jetlag, it's not a loss of faith in the pilot group, it's a lack of trust in the union leadership.

Then you have nothing to worry about..... The leadership serves the membership -- they answer to us.

 

[gret]

I'm not sure that came out right. Are you saying then the pilot group is ignoring the furloughed pilots?

When somebody says you have nothing to worry about...you really have something to worry about.

 

[BentOver]

I specifically brought up the "being sold down the river" scenario to the few NJASAP'ers who took the time to visit our side of the message board... My question to them was (paraphrasing) " Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that nothing will change in regards to recall rights, longetivity increases etc...."

The answer I received answered neither question.. It was a vague response at best... Basically I was informed that of course it would come down to a membership vote.. (which I understood)... When I redirected my question to include the fact that anything brought to a vote has to come from the negotiating committee. And that it should be as simple as deciding beforehand that the negotiating committee will not entertain any TA that includes a deterioration of furloughee rights. The answer I received was that the negotiating committee has to go in and work out the best possible TA for it's members....

Further on it was explained that the most likely scenario (if it happened at all) would be a grandfathering in of the current furloughs, but any future new hires:erm: would fall under the new TA that could keep their recall rights reduced (if there were ever any new hires that eventually got furloughed at some point) Which to me is akin to having half the company home based and half the company reduced to 5 bases..hmmmmm...Nothing like having the same employee groups work under a different set of rules.....

Should have known not to trust an employee group that is willing to negotiate a reduced set of work rules for employees not yet on property but that will be called "brother" as soon as they pass their type ride...

 

[CALRepublic]

I like netjets, great job, best I've ever had. I'm happy here, no desire whatsoever to go back to the airlines

Then I come to FI, read these union threads and everything goes to s***t. Always the same guys talking about "moving on", "can't wait to get on with an airline" and how netjets is destroying your life, but you guys are still here.

How I wish those of you who want your airline job get your airline job. This negative stuff is getting tiresome

 

[BentOver]

I like netjets, great job, best I've ever had. I'm happy here, no desire whatsoever to go back to the airlines

Then I come to FI, read these union threads and everything goes to s***t. Always the same guys talking about "moving on", "can't wait to get on with an airline" and how netjets is destroying your life, but you guys are still here.

How I wish those of you who want your airline job get your airline job. This negative stuff is getting tiresome

Your wish has already been granted, however, when something has a direct connection to previous conversations (which possibly adds information to this topic) I don't see a problem coming over here to check up on what's going on at a former company.

 

[jetlag7]

I'm not sure that came out right. Are you saying then the pilot group is ignoring the furloughed pilots?

When somebody says you have nothing to worry about...you really have something to worry about.

Do you ever get tired of stirring the pot???