Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan Reallignment

[xjhawk]

this entire issue is on the back of Delta-who kicked a profitable good airline to the street-to Pinnacle who accepted Delta decision to shore up their crappy fleet structure (they need the 900's in order to survive 2017 when Delta takes the 200's away)-on the back of ALPA for not having a fair and defined merger policy-and for the MEC's and their committees that allowed this to happen. I mean come on! How does Colgan and the Mesaba super senior come out on top while everyone else is screwed....( note I do not think most 9E captains got screwed other than they did not get to take the mesaba 900 slots like they wanted.

I do not blame the average pilot walking through the airport-I just am concentrating on my family-my job and trying to find somewhere else to go!

 

[bri5150]

My friend at Delta said they were worried about where they were going to get pilots. Hmmmm....where could they have gotten pilots? In my view, Delta does need to take a lot of the blame.

 

[DTWFO]

Glad to be gone from Pinnacle personally... Looks like a real mess.

For someone that doesn't work at Pinnacle anymore, you sure have a lot to say about "your" pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the _____ up!!

 

[higney85]

Hes a phantom in dtw. Check the policy manual before your speak, or better yet dont.

If he is indeed mgmt there is further reason why he would be ineligible. It's not my deal, but it's being investigated.

 

[CptMurf]

If he is indeed mgmt there is further reason why he would be ineligible. It's not my deal, but it's being investigated.

Not Mgmt. Instructor. There's no reason that he would be ineligible. End of investigation.

 

[Smarta$$]

For someone that doesn't work at Pinnacle anymore, you sure have a lot to say about "your" pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the _____ up!!

Because I spent 5+ years there and just left recently. In addition, I will make comments as I wish, regardless of your desire for me to be silent. Finally, all though you may not like it, you have no one to blame for this mess but 9E management and 9E pilots. There is no other blame to go around. Mesaba PILOTS did not cause the merger. Mesaba PILOTS did not force Pinnacle pilots to demand more from their merger committee than was ever going to be possible.

You guys did this to yourselves. Sorry you are to stupid or to blind to see REALITY.

Picking fights with Mesaba pilots does NOTHING to solve your problems. And they did not cause your problems. Period.

Enjoy the Sh!t sandwich that YOU created for yourselves.

 

[bri5150]

For someone that doesn't work at Pinnacle anymore, you sure have a lot to say about "your" pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the _____ up!!

Another high quality, mature, constructive post on FI.com.

 

[Flyer1015]

Stop whining, and arguing with Mesaba pilots about it. What is the point? What are you accomplishing? Its not their fault, regardless of whether they come out ahead or not. They didn't cause anything, so drop the subject. Period.

The merger committee did what the bulk of the Pinnacle pilots were pushing them to do, which was to over-reach. The merger committer had no CONTROL over the situation. Blaming them for a bad outcome is pure ignorance. There was no "magic" lever to create the outcome you desire or think you deserve. So again, drop it. You look like a fool for bringing it up again and again. You also look like a fool for placing blame where it does not lie. Yes, bloch was a complete F#$%^ moron, but it was the fault of our own pilot group for mandating the merger committee over-reach grossly on the integration proposals, which led to bloch being handed the keys to this freight train in the first place.

The blame lies with 9E management and 9E pilots. To argue anything else is narrow and small minded.

Reality is a bitch.

Because I spent 5+ years there and just left recently. In addition, I will make comments as I wish, regardless of your desire for me to be silent. Finally, all though you may not like it, you have no one to blame for this mess but 9E management and 9E pilots. There is no other blame to go around. Mesaba PILOTS did not cause the merger. Mesaba PILOTS did not force Pinnacle pilots to demand more from their merger committee than was ever going to be possible.

You guys did this to yourselves. Sorry you are to stupid or to blind to see REALITY.

Picking fights with Mesaba pilots does NOTHING to solve your problems. And they did not cause your problems. Period.

Enjoy the Sh!t sandwich that YOU created for yourselves.

Two separate individuals are stating that the 9E group instructed and demanded our merger committee to over-reach on the proposals. Funny, I don't ever recall anyone approaching me and asking what my opinion was regarding an integration method. My voice was never heard. For that matter, I don't even know how our 3 pilots were selected for the merger committee. Most of us were kept in the dark. Our committee never released any information as to what it was proposing or what our stance was. The first time we heard anything was when the Colgan union released a final-standing viewpoint summary of all 3 airlines, and only then did our merger committee come out and admit the truth of what they were doing. Needless to say, I was shocked at the final view method submitted (Jet CA, Jet FO, Prop CA, Prop FO, etc), and I would never have approved that method. Every single Pinnacle pilot I spoke with was also shocked at just how bad this proposed method was. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was the fault of our entire pilot group. We were all kept in the dark and told everything was basically classified.

 

[DoinTime]

Hes a phantom in dtw. Check the policy manual before your speak, or better yet dont.

What policy manual are you talking about? The Mesaba MEC policy manual? FWIW, the new MEC will be the Pinnacle MEC, not the Mesaba MEC.

 

[e=mc2]

So have you guys figured out who the tallest miget in the room is yet?

 

[Flyer1015]

What policy manual are you talking about? The Mesaba MEC policy manual? FWIW, the new MEC will be the Pinnacle MEC, not the Mesaba MEC.

True, but the Pinnacle MEC could consist of Mesaba pilots. We are all one now. Voting is open.

 

[bri5150]

True, but the Pinnacle MEC should consist of Mesaba pilots. We are all one now. Voting is open.

I think you had a typo there, so I fixed it for you.

 

[Smarta$$]

Two separate individuals are stating that the 9E group instructed and demanded our merger committee to over-reach on the proposals. Funny, I don't ever recall anyone approaching me and asking what my opinion was regarding an integration method. My voice was never heard. For that matter, I don't even know how our 3 pilots were selected for the merger committee. Most of us were kept in the dark. Our committee never released any information as to what it was proposing or what our stance was. The first time we heard anything was when the Colgan union released a final-standing viewpoint summary of all 3 airlines, and only then did our merger committee come out and admit the truth of what they were doing. Needless to say, I was shocked at the final view method submitted (Jet CA, Jet FO, Prop CA, Prop FO, etc), and I would never have approved that method. Every single Pinnacle pilot I spoke with was also shocked at just how bad this proposed method was. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was the fault of our entire pilot group. We were all kept in the dark and told everything was basically classified.

The direction the merger committee took was based on line pilot sentiment. The sentiment of the pilots was obtained through speaking to people in crew rooms, in person, on our message board, phone calls to reps, etc... Was there a formal survey to each pilot? No. Of course not. There was also not a survey of MSA and Colgan pilots. If there was a survey at 9E, it would only reinforce the general prevailing sentiment of "we bought them", "they ran their airline into the ground", "we saved them", "3 to 1", "5 to 1", "staple", "use the LOA", and so on. It was an extreme minority that said we should integrate MSA and Colgan with something reasonable like DOH or relative.

The temperature of our pilot group on this subject was well known. We had people like PT in MSP writing legal briefs on how to staple MSA pilots. He posted it with fan fair on our airlink pilots website. ANY ATTEMPT TO DOWNPLAY THIS SENTIMENT WITH THE PINNACLE PILOT GROUP IS AN ATTEMPT TO RE-WRITE HISTORY. As long as I have a keyboard, I will call you out on that.

This over-reach was a direct factor in send this SLI to Bloch. This over-reach was a primary factor in why he found our proposal so dis-tasteful. Make no mistake about it, 9E pilots caused this bad SLI.

That does not mean that ALL 9E pilots were so selfish and ignorant. There were some reasonable pilots, but they were in the extreme minority and were blasted for even suggesting that we play nice. Well, the outcome is now in the history books, and it is perfectly clear that it DID NOT WORK.

So don't pretend for ONE second that most 9E pilots were demanding the upper-hand on any SLI.

 

[Inconceivable]

So have you guys figured out who the tallest miget in the room is yet?

David White while on his back.

Look out! He's rolling over to get more pizza -- RUN!!!!

 

[Smarta$$]

I think you had a typo there, so I fixed it for you.

100% agree. Although 9E did have some good union leadership from time to time, the group wouldn't give the required support or unity.