How GK made me feel today!

[BR715]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8YKEwt3wO0

 

[Kharma Police]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8YKEwt3wO0

Well, hopefully we won't turn out like the graphic scene with Andy and, "The Sisters".

 

[BR715]

No kidding, but I feel like that right now after the last 34% loss of seniority in their last proposal.

 

[malibuVride]

"in lieu of"

These are three words that Gary spoke today that will keep me up tonight!

 

[titan1]

"in lieu of"

These are three words that Gary spoke today that will keep me up tonight!

Man, I will sleep great tonight knowing that tranny is restless! Give me a "*ell Yeah"!

 

[Max Powers]

"in lieu of"

These are three words that Gary spoke today that will keep me up tonight!

Yes the art of negotiations......"in Lieu" could mean; without arbitration but with the mediation process. Or it could mean SWA goes back on their word and doesn't integrated. I thought GK was a man of his word? It is in writing after all. Just read our CBA which you now OWN and are enslaved to unless we agree otherwise.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Good Luck with that!

Just read our CBA which you now OWN and are enslaved to unless we agree otherwise.

Enslaved to? That's hilarious. Gary never goes back on his word. Just ask RSW pilots about "All I want for Xmas is gates at MDW"

That's okay. You can negotiate against him for six years like we did to get him to remember his word.

Lotta bravado there for someone who is on an island without a ship.

 

[USAFftrplt]

The ball was in motion before the the MEC voted not to let the guys decide. Some people just dont know how to read between lines. Its unfortunate for the bottom half who would have taken the deal even if it wasnt the best.

That sense of ENTITLEMENT will do it every time.

Stand up to your own union guys and tell them what you want as a majority not as a minority. Its obvious the reps at the top could care less about anyone but themselves. Some things are worth standing up for.

Best of luck to both groups

 

[SWA2000]

Yes the art of negotiations......"in Lieu" could mean; without arbitration but with the mediation process. Or it could mean SWA goes back on their word and doesn't integrated. I thought GK was a man of his word? It is in writing after all. Just read our CBA which you now OWN and are enslaved to unless we agree otherwise.

Max,

You still don't get it. I suggest you stop posting on flightinfo and start emailing your reps and see what kind of deal can be saved. All AT pilots must realize that seniority was not an option for them. Sl9 was your best deal. I think Gary has made it clear that if he let's it go to arbitration and it is a bad deal for HIS pilots he will not integrate the list. You guys were offered a generous compensation package and now you are having to worry if you will even have a job because of a lone 7 and ALPA. That what greed and entitlement is good for. That is what is wrong with this country. Everybody thinks they deserve what the other guy has even though they didn't help to build it. I wish you all luck. I really don't want any thing to happen to you or your families, but i do think it is time for you to be more realistic. After all you were BOUGHT.

 

[redflyer65]

M/B emboldened AAI ALPA and they overeached. If Gary makes any offer at all, it will look much different. And most likely the last.

 

[Linedriver]

So what happens if nothing gets accomplished at this stage of the game? SWA has already purchased Airtran, right? Will they just continue to operate as two seperate carriers? Is Airtran already on SWA pay rates?

 

[redflyer65]

Continue to operate seperately. The are not under our CBA until the ID says SW.

 

[slaquer5]

Yes the art of negotiations......"in Lieu" could mean; without arbitration but with the mediation process. Or it could mean SWA goes back on their word and doesn't integrated. I thought GK was a man of his word? It is in writing after all. Just read our CBA which you now OWN and are enslaved to unless we agree otherwise.

I hope your joking. That statement is about to-faced as it can get . Your NC yanked GK & co. around for 2 weeks, going between Dallas, ATL, and Washington to make sure all the dots are doted and Tees crossed. ALL ALONG NO INTENTION OF GOING THROUGH WITH IT.

Step back and ask yourself what you would do if someone did this to you.

GK told us if we voted down our TA ( TA1) there would be 40 million less in the next offer. That was exactly what was in TA2. He is not the puzzie that some AT pilots think he is.

Remember, ALPA is not looking out for the best interest of the AT pilots.

I personally think Gary is a straight shooter, and says it like its going to be.

 

[Linedriver]

So if they continue to operate seperately and Airtran isn't as profitable as SWA, which will be the case, will SWA want to sell Airtran? Or will they just work on it to mirror the SWA business model?

It's good to see a management team look out for it's people and culture these days.

 

[Andy]

So if they continue to operate seperately and Airtran isn't as profitable as SWA, which will be the case, will SWA want to sell Airtran? Or will they just work on it to mirror the SWA business model?

It's good to see a management team look out for it's people and culture these days.

The usual management blueprint for keeping separate operating certificates is to wind down one operation and replace that flying with the other operation's aircraft and personnel.

I have no insight into Southwest's plans but when GK announced Southwest flights into ATL yesterday, it sounds like what they're planning on doing. By the time a final integration is reached, there won't be much of anything left to integrate. This is about Southwest getting a turnkey ATL hub; I am under the impression that Southwest will scuttle the entire AirTran operation if it becomes a PITA to integrate. http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={eae6f8fd-7ca2-4911-a2af-b8ae95875a0d}

 

[Ty Webb]

The usual management blueprint for keeping separate operating certificates is to wind down one operation and replace that flying with the other operation's aircraft and personnel.

I have no insight into Southwest's plans but when GK announced Southwest flights into ATL yesterday, it sounds like what they're planning on doing. By the time a final integration is reached, there won't be much of anything left to integrate. This is about Southwest getting a turnkey ATL hub; I am under the impression that Southwest will scuttle the entire AirTran operation if it becomes a PITA to integrate. http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={eae6f8fd-7ca2-4911-a2af-b8ae95875a0d}

Might want to bone up on what events trigger M-B, Andy.

I'll also venture that the AAI pilots aren't going to be the PITA, if there is one. . . . All we want is a fair shake; a 32% seniority haircut isn't a fair shake. There is a Process Agreement in place, everyone just needs to follow the Agreement.

 

[airlinepilot]

The usual management blueprint for keeping separate operating certificates is to wind down one operation and replace that flying with the other operation's aircraft and personnel.

I have no insight into Southwest's plans but when GK announced Southwest flights into ATL yesterday, it sounds like what they're planning on doing. By the time a final integration is reached, there won't be much of anything left to integrate. This is about Southwest getting a turnkey ATL hub; I am under the impression that Southwest will scuttle the entire AirTran operation if it becomes a PITA to integrate. http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={eae6f8fd-7ca2-4911-a2af-b8ae95875a0d}

Fed 12th, the first domino falls........

 

[Andy]

Might want to bone up on what events trigger M-B, Andy.

I'll also venture that the AAI pilots aren't going to be the PITA, if there is one. . . . All we want is a fair shake; a 32% seniority haircut isn't a fair shake. There is a Process Agreement in place, everyone just needs to follow the Agreement.

Ty, I've got no dog in this fight so I'm not going to spend any time digging up the details of the acquisition. I'm also not a Southwest fan; I'm just stating what I see as the likely course of action. If you've got something in writing that prevents Southwest from taking that course of action, post it.

As far as a fair shake, I think the negotiated package was fair. Again, I've got no skin in the game and the outcome will not have any effect on me.

 

[Beechdriver32]

You AT guys keep spouting the same BS.

32% ALPA talking point. All real world BS.

The first 1600 SWA guys won't be touched. They were here before you existed as an airline.

So, even your number 1 pilot will end up 1601 out of 8000.

That's a 20% 'haircut'. For your #1 guy. With varying % for the rest.

Really what do you want? You had an opportunity to receive a financial windfall.

Especially coming from a guy who has an application on file at Southwest.

Really???

 

[Ty Webb]

You AT guys keep spouting the same BS.

32% ALPA talking point. All real world BS.

The first 1600 SWA guys won't be touched. They were here before you existed as an airline.

So, even your number 1 pilot will end up 1601 out of 8000.

That's a 20% 'haircut'. For your #1 guy. With varying % for the rest.

Really what do you want? You had an opportunity to receive a financial windfall.

Especially coming from a guy who has an application on file at Southwest.

Really???

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

So you are willing to take DOH with the seat your seniority can hold....correct. Not sure what year you were but if it is post 2000ish you can give up your seat....so it is not about the $$ but the senority. Right? Take DoH and be placed back to FO for majority of your junior captains....TY are you cool with that? No seat/pay/base protection.

 

[bluepost]

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

That all might mean something if this was a MERGER....but as GK just reminded you, it isn't. You were bought and they were going to give you 50K-70k to POSSIBLY add one leg to your commute, or to miss Xmas for a couple years. Meanwhile you would be working less and have access to more bases.

Well you may get your dream of protecting your seniority to be able to work less.....A LOT less.

This is going down as one of the biggest pilot screw ups in the history of aviation. Snooki makes better life decisions than some of the AT guys.

 

[CF34-3B1]

So basically, ALPA is saying the arbitrator is going to look at all the facts, all the numbers, all the career expectations, and say "Yeah, you guys clearly deserve a pay and benifit raise worth over $2mil individually AND weekends off." ??

 

[Ty Webb]

So you are willing to take DOH with the seat your seniority can hold....correct. Not sure what year you were but if it is post 2000ish you can give up your seat....so it is not about the $$ but the senority. Right? Take DoH and be placed back to FO for majority of your junior captains....TY are you cool with that? No seat/pay/base protection.

Don't know why you guys aren't aware of this, but our Union proposed this at the table. SWA mgmnt didn't like it because of the training costs. Talk to your NC.

 

[Ty Webb]

That all might mean something if this was a MERGER....but as GK just reminded you, it isn't. You were bought and they were going to give you 50K-70k to POSSIBLY add one leg to your commute, or to miss Xmas for a couple years. Meanwhile you would be working less and have access to more bases.

Well you may get your dream of protecting your seniority to be able to work less.....A LOT less.

This is going down as one of the biggest pilot screw ups in the history of aviation. Snooki makes better life decisions than some of the AT guys.

This type of post is all bluster and trash-talking. There is nothing worth responding to here. When I read this, all I see is one unhappy
guy who thinks that wresting seniority away from another pilot is going to make him happy. . . . . it ain't.

 

[vv100]

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

You guys really ought to go public with this injustice. Full page ad in the McPaper bought with your ALPO dues. You could complain about losing your precious position within your crappy regional while increasing your pay $7000 a month. While your at it you could bitch about getting a "Cadillac Health Insurance Plan" as well. Don't forget to whine about the Profit Sharing! Be sure to emphasize the strength of your union. Unions are BIG right now! I'm sure 15 MILLION+ fellow Americans out of work would really feel your pain.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, I've got no dog in this fight so I'm not going to spend any time digging up the details of the acquisition. I'm also not a Southwest fan; I'm just stating what I see as the likely course of action. If you've got something in writing that prevents Southwest from taking that course of action, post it.

As far as a fair shake, I think the negotiated package was fair. Again, I've got no skin in the game and the outcome will not have any effect on me.

Yeah, Andy, it's in our Section 1 languauge, a side letter signed by SWA, the 4 Party Process Agreement, and of course M-B as well. It's all been posted here at one time or another over the past 15 months or so.

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys really ought to go public with this injustice. Full page ad in the McPaper bought with your ALPO dues. You could complain about losing your precious position within your crappy regional while increasing your pay $7000 a month. While your at it you could bitch about getting a "Cadillac Health Insurance Plan" as well. Don't forget to whine about the Profit Sharing! Be sure to emphasize the strength of your union. Unions are BIG right now! I'm sure 15 MILLION+ fellow Americans out of work would really feel your pain.

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

 

[Tripower455]

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

Your post count on FI suggests otherwise!

 

[vv100]

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

This "stuff" would be your inflated sense of self entitlement.

The majority of people in this country are really frackin tired of the mentality. You should be too. If you aren't then this is no place for you.