How GK made me feel today!

[Ty Webb]

The usual management blueprint for keeping separate operating certificates is to wind down one operation and replace that flying with the other operation's aircraft and personnel.

I have no insight into Southwest's plans but when GK announced Southwest flights into ATL yesterday, it sounds like what they're planning on doing. By the time a final integration is reached, there won't be much of anything left to integrate. This is about Southwest getting a turnkey ATL hub; I am under the impression that Southwest will scuttle the entire AirTran operation if it becomes a PITA to integrate. http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={eae6f8fd-7ca2-4911-a2af-b8ae95875a0d}

Might want to bone up on what events trigger M-B, Andy.

I'll also venture that the AAI pilots aren't going to be the PITA, if there is one. . . . All we want is a fair shake; a 32% seniority haircut isn't a fair shake. There is a Process Agreement in place, everyone just needs to follow the Agreement.

 

[airlinepilot]

The usual management blueprint for keeping separate operating certificates is to wind down one operation and replace that flying with the other operation's aircraft and personnel.

I have no insight into Southwest's plans but when GK announced Southwest flights into ATL yesterday, it sounds like what they're planning on doing. By the time a final integration is reached, there won't be much of anything left to integrate. This is about Southwest getting a turnkey ATL hub; I am under the impression that Southwest will scuttle the entire AirTran operation if it becomes a PITA to integrate. http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={eae6f8fd-7ca2-4911-a2af-b8ae95875a0d}

Fed 12th, the first domino falls........

 

[Andy]

Might want to bone up on what events trigger M-B, Andy.

I'll also venture that the AAI pilots aren't going to be the PITA, if there is one. . . . All we want is a fair shake; a 32% seniority haircut isn't a fair shake. There is a Process Agreement in place, everyone just needs to follow the Agreement.

Ty, I've got no dog in this fight so I'm not going to spend any time digging up the details of the acquisition. I'm also not a Southwest fan; I'm just stating what I see as the likely course of action. If you've got something in writing that prevents Southwest from taking that course of action, post it.

As far as a fair shake, I think the negotiated package was fair. Again, I've got no skin in the game and the outcome will not have any effect on me.

 

[Beechdriver32]

You AT guys keep spouting the same BS.

32% ALPA talking point. All real world BS.

The first 1600 SWA guys won't be touched. They were here before you existed as an airline.

So, even your number 1 pilot will end up 1601 out of 8000.

That's a 20% 'haircut'. For your #1 guy. With varying % for the rest.

Really what do you want? You had an opportunity to receive a financial windfall.

Especially coming from a guy who has an application on file at Southwest.

Really???

 

[Ty Webb]

You AT guys keep spouting the same BS.

32% ALPA talking point. All real world BS.

The first 1600 SWA guys won't be touched. They were here before you existed as an airline.

So, even your number 1 pilot will end up 1601 out of 8000.

That's a 20% 'haircut'. For your #1 guy. With varying % for the rest.

Really what do you want? You had an opportunity to receive a financial windfall.

Especially coming from a guy who has an application on file at Southwest.

Really???

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

So you are willing to take DOH with the seat your seniority can hold....correct. Not sure what year you were but if it is post 2000ish you can give up your seat....so it is not about the $$ but the senority. Right? Take DoH and be placed back to FO for majority of your junior captains....TY are you cool with that? No seat/pay/base protection.

 

[bluepost]

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

That all might mean something if this was a MERGER....but as GK just reminded you, it isn't. You were bought and they were going to give you 50K-70k to POSSIBLY add one leg to your commute, or to miss Xmas for a couple years. Meanwhile you would be working less and have access to more bases.

Well you may get your dream of protecting your seniority to be able to work less.....A LOT less.

This is going down as one of the biggest pilot screw ups in the history of aviation. Snooki makes better life decisions than some of the AT guys.

 

[CF34-3B1]

So basically, ALPA is saying the arbitrator is going to look at all the facts, all the numbers, all the career expectations, and say "Yeah, you guys clearly deserve a pay and benifit raise worth over $2mil individually AND weekends off." ??

 

[Ty Webb]

So you are willing to take DOH with the seat your seniority can hold....correct. Not sure what year you were but if it is post 2000ish you can give up your seat....so it is not about the $$ but the senority. Right? Take DoH and be placed back to FO for majority of your junior captains....TY are you cool with that? No seat/pay/base protection.

Don't know why you guys aren't aware of this, but our Union proposed this at the table. SWA mgmnt didn't like it because of the training costs. Talk to your NC.

 

[Ty Webb]

That all might mean something if this was a MERGER....but as GK just reminded you, it isn't. You were bought and they were going to give you 50K-70k to POSSIBLY add one leg to your commute, or to miss Xmas for a couple years. Meanwhile you would be working less and have access to more bases.

Well you may get your dream of protecting your seniority to be able to work less.....A LOT less.

This is going down as one of the biggest pilot screw ups in the history of aviation. Snooki makes better life decisions than some of the AT guys.

This type of post is all bluster and trash-talking. There is nothing worth responding to here. When I read this, all I see is one unhappy
guy who thinks that wresting seniority away from another pilot is going to make him happy. . . . . it ain't.

 

[vv100]

Look at the proposed list. It's plain as day.

With the exception of those at the bottom (0%-0% = 0 % loss) and a handful of guys at the very top of our list (who had a 20% loss) the loss most of us are looking at is 32% which translates into about 4 years' loss. We're integrated with pilots hired 3-4 years after our DOH. That's not acceptable.

I don't know who you were referencing as having an application on file, maybe you should check your facts more thoroughly, but then you wouldn't really have anything to post, would you?

You guys really ought to go public with this injustice. Full page ad in the McPaper bought with your ALPO dues. You could complain about losing your precious position within your crappy regional while increasing your pay $7000 a month. While your at it you could bitch about getting a "Cadillac Health Insurance Plan" as well. Don't forget to whine about the Profit Sharing! Be sure to emphasize the strength of your union. Unions are BIG right now! I'm sure 15 MILLION+ fellow Americans out of work would really feel your pain.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, I've got no dog in this fight so I'm not going to spend any time digging up the details of the acquisition. I'm also not a Southwest fan; I'm just stating what I see as the likely course of action. If you've got something in writing that prevents Southwest from taking that course of action, post it.

As far as a fair shake, I think the negotiated package was fair. Again, I've got no skin in the game and the outcome will not have any effect on me.

Yeah, Andy, it's in our Section 1 languauge, a side letter signed by SWA, the 4 Party Process Agreement, and of course M-B as well. It's all been posted here at one time or another over the past 15 months or so.

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys really ought to go public with this injustice. Full page ad in the McPaper bought with your ALPO dues. You could complain about losing your precious position within your crappy regional while increasing your pay $7000 a month. While your at it you could bitch about getting a "Cadillac Health Insurance Plan" as well. Don't forget to whine about the Profit Sharing! Be sure to emphasize the strength of your union. Unions are BIG right now! I'm sure 15 MILLION+ fellow Americans out of work would really feel your pain.

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

 

[Tripower455]

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

Your post count on FI suggests otherwise!

 

[vv100]

More trash-talk and nonsense. Sorry, man, I have way too nice of a life to spend it arguing over stuff like this.

This "stuff" would be your inflated sense of self entitlement.

The majority of people in this country are really frackin tired of the mentality. You should be too. If you aren't then this is no place for you.