Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[On Your Six]

It just came out via Arbitrator Bloch. All Captains, even turboprop Captains at Colgan with lowest pay and no jet prospects, were placed above all FOs. Ty Webb probably read the whole award, twice. If I were an Airtran pilot, I would push for Arbitration. Why not? Precedence is always looked at, and this one is very recent. There were some fences, but I think they were for only 5 years. Good luck everyone. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[lowlycfi]

Why do have such a hard on for what's happening at SWA?

 

[On Your Six]

Why do have such a hard on for what's happening at SWA?

I have friends at both airlines, and it is an important merger in our industry. Is that good enough for you? Maybe we should only allow those pilots to talk about it, right? Maybe you think you are a ruler of a Middle Eastern Country with powers to do that? Too bad. A very recent SLI award is important for everyone else in the same situation. It might not be the exact same merger, but a result in the SLI may be similar with arbitrators, especially arbitrator Bloch.


OYS

 

[radarlove]

Because he works at AirTran.

 

[SWA/FO]

OY6 = OWNED, just like tranny.

 

[On Your Six]

OY6 = OWNED, just like tranny.

Yes, I fly an A320 at Airtran... I would think you two FOs would really be interested in that recent Bloch decision. You better read it. Colgan was "owned" by Pinnacle, too. Godspeed.


OYS

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

It just came out via Arbitrator Bloch. All Captains, even turboprop Captains at Colgan with lowest pay and no jet prospects, were placed above all FOs. Ty Webb probably read the whole award, twice. If I were an Airtran pilot, I would push for Arbitration. Why not? Precedence is always looked at, and this one is very recent. There were some fences, but I think they were for only 5 years. Good luck everyone. Godspeed!


OYS

Something like that would likely result in the list never being combined. Not good for either party. It's personal opinion as to who it's worse for. Gary and VdV have bluntly stated that they want a NEGOTIATED agreement. Smart choice takes the bird in the hand. Why tempt fate when so many have tried and failed before?

 

[Kharma Police]

Something like that would likely result in the list never being combined. Not good for either party. It's personal opinion as to who it's worse for. Gary and VdV have bluntly stated that they want a NEGOTIATED agreement. Smart choice takes the bird in the hand. Why tempt fate when so many have tried and failed before?

Nice try, SWAPA, Southwest and ATN ALPA signed the agreement with the possibility of arbitration. Back out if the decision doesn't go the way you like it, then have fun on the leper colony with the USAPA pariahs.

 

[Ty Webb]

Something like that would likely result in the list never being combined. Not good for either party.

One thing I'm not hearing here is how separate operations would affect other parties, namely, other employee groups . . . and shareholders.

If the pilot lists are separate, and there are separate operations, what does this mean for Agents, F/A's, etc?

I do not know the answer to this, but it is something we should all want to know the answer to.

Regds,
Ty

 

[Bill Nelson]

All Captains, even turboprop Captains at Colgan with lowest pay and no jet prospects, were placed above all FOs.

Colgan/Mesaba/Pinnacle are all regional airlines. There is only one airline in the SWA/AAI deal that flies "regional" type airframes. These results while interesting will have no bearing on any SWA/AAI arbitration award.

Bloch mashed a bunch of apples together. SWA's acquisition will result in mashing apples with an orange (citrus) fruit. They are 2 different types of companies and 2 different types of career expectations within the groups. That is if they are ever mashed together.

 

[Ty Webb]

Colgan/Mesaba/Pinnacle are all regional airlines. There is only one airline in the SWA/AAI deal that flies "regional" type airframes.

They have the same capacity as your -500 series tuna cans, when you take out business class.

 

[Bill Nelson]

AirForce One has the same capacity as a CRJ. I doubt anyone would argue they are the same except if you were a Tranny trying to argue that you aren't flying around an RJ.

 

[On Your Six]

Colgan/Mesaba/Pinnacle are all regional airlines. There is only one airline in the SWA/AAI deal that flies "regional" type airframes. These results while interesting will have no bearing on any SWA/AAI arbitration award.

Bloch mashed a bunch of apples together. SWA's acquisition will result in mashing apples with an orange (citrus) fruit. They are 2 different types of companies and 2 different types of career expectations within the groups. That is if they are ever mashed together.

LOL! What a classic response. Did Colgan pilots, low paid prop pilots with no expectations of a jet anywhere in their future, ever expect to be placed higher up above current higher paid jet Captains in their SLI? I bet they didn't, but Bloch thought it was fair. Arbitration is the way to go.



OYS

 

[Ty Webb]

You would be smart to ask for lower rates for those pesky 717's. Just ask Tweet. He's a regular brain sturgeon.

 

[GoodTimes]

There's an agreement which will eventually end up with a list on a piece of paper. That's all anyone agreed to.

 

[On Your Six]

Something like that would likely result in the list never being combined. Not good for either party. It's personal opinion as to who it's worse for. Gary and VdV have bluntly stated that they want a NEGOTIATED agreement. Smart choice takes the bird in the hand. Why tempt fate when so many have tried and failed before?

You are starting to squirm and get nervous.

OYS

 

[GoodTimes]

Since I've got On Your Sixth on ignore I can't speak to his posts, but the title of the thread makes me think...


Mesaba, Colgan, Pinnacle....apples to apples to apples

SWA, Airtran....not so much

 

[On Your Six]

There's an agreement which will eventually end up with a list on a piece of paper. That's all anyone agreed to.

Is that sweat raining down from your head and pits? GK wants this done and over with, and Wall Street wants this merger too. Every Airtran pilot should push their NC for the only fair approach to this SLI, binding arbitration. Just ask the Colgan prop guys for their advice.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Since I've got On Your Sixth on ignore I can't speak to his posts, but the title of the thread makes me think...


Mesaba, Colgan, Pinnacle....apples to apples to apples

SWA, Airtran....not so much

Of course he has me on ignore, he is ignoring the truth and future as well. Is Colgan as big as Pinnacle? No. Are they both Regionals? Yes. Are some Colgan Saab Captains now senior to some Pinnacle CRJ Captains? Apparently so according to the thread on the Regional forum. Is Airtran as big as Southwest? No. Are they both LCCs? Pretty much, except Southwest is not really low cost anymore. I think binding arbitration would be the way to go for the Airtran pilots. It's just more fair. JMO. Godspeed for the best decision for your group.


OYS

 

[GoodTimes]

Double OYS posts following mine? Are you talking to me, OYS? You're gonna have to speak louder. I can't HEAR you. Oh how I love the Ignore button.

 

[On Your Six]

Double OYS posts following mine? Are you talking to me, OYS? You're gonna have to speak louder. I can't HEAR you. Oh how I love the Ignore button.

Now this is funny. Everyone else can see YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. Very recent arbitration awards should interest this guy. It's just NOT apples to oranges. Colgan is smaller than Pinnacle, just like Airtran is to Southwest. Almost identical situations. Arbitrator Bloch didn't staple anyone. Mesaba was also BK recently, and they were blended in too. If I were an Airtran pilot, I would push the NC into looking closely at this option. Godspeed at a fair conclusion to this matter for your merged group.



OYS

 

[Flyer1015]

OYS,

All Captains, even turboprop Captains at Colgan with lowest pay and no jet prospects, were placed above all FOs.

True from a category standpoint, but senior FOs are still above Saab captains.

The status/category method entailed:
1. CRJ-900 (272 XJ, 100 Pinnacle, 0 Colgan)
2. Q400 Captains and CRJ-200 Captains (88 Mesaba, 581 Pinnacle, 149 Colgan)
3. Saab 340 Captains (132 Mesaba, 0 Pinnacle, 149 Colgan)
4. Jet FOs (Mesaba 314, Pinnacle 448, 0 Colgan)
5. Prop FOs (Mesaba 194, 0 Pinnacle, 158 Colgan)
6. Newhires since June 2010 (16 Mesaba, 225 Pinnacle, 152 Colgan)

It's true the category for the first 3 are Captain, the next 3 FOs. However, to state that turboprop Captains were placed above all FOs is not true, physically speaking. The reason is that the categories above only list the numbers that the given equipment brings, and the pilot positions listed are filled in order of date of hire, from top to bottom.

For example, suppose I'm a Pinnacle guy who was #75 on our overall Pinnacle list, and because I enjoyed my QOL and was lazy, I was a CRJ-900 FO at Atlanta. With this award, my physical position on the list is still in the top. The first 100 positions of Pinnacle under the CRJ-900 Captain position means the first 100 Pinnacle guys, regardless of what aircraft or seat they occupy. So in the above, I would be 75 out of the 100 for that Pinnacle award of 100 category 1 positions.

In other words, another way to read this award is that the first 372 positions on the integrated seniority list will be filled by the first 272 Mesaba pilots and the first 100 Pinnacle pilots, ratio of 272:100 with Mesaba pilot, in order of DOH for each group.

The next 818 positions on the list will be filled by the next 88 Mesaba pilots, next 581 Pinnacle pilots, the first 149 Colgan pilots, ratio 88:581:149, in order of DOH for each group.

The next 281 positions on the list will be filed by the next 132 Mesaba pilots, the next 149 Colgan pilots, ratio 132:149, in order of DOH for each group.

That repeats until the list is done. To say that a Saab Captain is "above" all FOs is therefore not accurate. A super senior FO at Pinnacle in the top 100 positions is still in the first group for the purposes of the integrated list. The main problem you could have by doing it straight up all Captains above and all FOs below would be that at your own airline, a CRJ-900 Captain could be junior to many CRJ-200 Captains, or a CRJ first officer could be senior to many CRJ-200 or 900 captains. No one at your own airline can jump over your own seniority. So, the breakdown I provided above makes sure that doesn't happen. It's also the reason why DOH isn't necessary to forumlate this award. It is category, number of slots, and ratios.

 

[texman]

Oys, you got beat up a lot in high school didn't you. Your post are so scary. I am so scared. F it boys! Let's get this done quick so we can put the hurting on delta. Oys will get furloughed and be out of a job because of the pain swa will bring.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

You guys really don't get it do you! You might want to check with your NC committee to see what the Process Agreement and our Transition Agreement really means. So OYS go ahead and push for binding arbitration.

 

[bri5150]

Am I the only one that thinks AirTran and SWA are a closer match businesswise than Colgan, Mesaba, and Pinnacle? Mr. Bloch obviously didn't think I flew an apple. I got f'ed because I was in the range of people that flew an orange.

 

[Lonestar]

You guys really don't get it do you! You might want to check with your NC committee to see what the Process Agreement and our Transition Agreement really means. So OYS go ahead and push for binding arbitration.

It really is very simple yet some still can't seem to grasp the reality of the situation. If a negotiated settlement can't be reached, there will be no integration. Period.

 

[On Your Six]

Oys, you got beat up a lot in high school didn't you. Your post are so scary. I am so scared. F it boys! Let's get this done quick so we can put the hurting on delta. Oys will get furloughed and be out of a job because of the pain swa will bring.

Your chances of anything close to a staple are rapidly going down the toilet. Everytime a new arbitrated award comes out, we all see a better picture of what your future SLI could look like if it goes that route. I am only trying to provide some advice here.

Airtran pilots, seriously look into taking the arbitration route. And Texman, like that 80's song states, "Don't go away mad, just go away.....". Many people on this public forum are interested in this SLI outcome. You need to realize that. Godspeed, you bully.


OYS

 

[scarlet]

Really lonestar.. Saving this, so we can judge your post after the fact.

So funny pilots mad at other pilots ? Like any of you are in charge of the merger or process. Growth/Intl./worlds busiest airport.

 

[On Your Six]

It really is very simple yet some still can't seem to grasp the reality of the situation. If a negotiated settlement can't be reached, there will be no integration. Period.

Wall St disagrees with you. Didn't GK sign the Process Agreement allowing for arbitration? I'm just asking.


OYS

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

It really is very simple yet some still can't seem to grasp the reality of the situation. If a negotiated settlement can't be reached, there will be no integration. Period.

This will look even more rediculous in less than a year.