Pinnacolaba list.

[bri5150]

Where were you on the mesaba list? Just curious, from another mesaba pilot

Early '05 hire

 

[Limeyflyer]

At least I have 800ish pilots below me for the next furlough

 

[bri5150]

My disclaimer, I'm typing this from the crew room and as of right now, 7pm local time eastern, I have not fully read the award or the conditions/restrictions. bri, I have nothing against you. I want to understand your concern. You cannot be flushed, you cannot be displaced, not even one year after this list is out. Can you PM me? I'd like to know are you a 900 CA? 200CA? Saab CA? If you are a 900 Captain, I think the Mesaba side did excellent. The ratio is 2.7:1 for the 900 Captains, starting with a MESABA PILOT. So what plane are you on?

Just doing a quick, eye glance analysis, it seems the true winners, in terms of seniority grab, are the junior Colgan CAs on both the Qs and Saabs, since they are above ALL FOs SYSTEM WIDE. Lots of Colgan Captains were hired in 2007-9, and now they are super-senior above all FOs.

Saab captain, and yes I can be displaced when my plane goes away. As stated earlier, at least before when I was going to be downgrading I could look forward to flowing at some point. I may change my tune though. After reading the fence language, it really doesn't fence anything on the growing side. In order for Mesaba or Colgan to bid to a 200 captain position, there needs to be at least 541 9E pilots already in that position. He used 541 because that's how many were already there from his "snapshot" (no clue when that was). So the minimum is already met and that should open vacancies up to seniority order (any airline). Am I missing something?

 

[Flyer1015]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

 

[v1valarob]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

That's the way I read it.

My question is... Where do Mesaba guys go when the Saabs start leaving?

 

[bri5150]

The Mesaba MEC email straight up stated that 9E has the minimum amount met for the 200's and 900's and Mesaba has not (no specific numbers), so the next 200 and 900 vacancies are all awarded to Mesaba pilots. There is my little glimmer of hope (VERY little).

 

[gojo]

S

Early '05 hire

What month?

 

[bri5150]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

I honestly think they aren't much of a fence at all. Once Mesaba fills up their minimum (not sure where the q's are staffed at for Colgan), then the fences are worthless unless there is some type of displacement or loss of aircraft or something.

 

[bri5150]

S

What month?

I edited it to try and stay vague I will PM you.

 

[CptMurf]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

I believe it is this... At the snapshot 9E had 541 CAs. That is the fence, as long as current 9E pilots have 541 200 CA positions filled, then the fence is open for ANYONE in ISL seniority order to bid on. If 9E pilots do not comprise 541 positions, then the fences close and only 9E pilots can fill them (up to 541 that is). This lasts for 5 years. At this point, I believe you have more than 541, so the fences are open for anyone to bid a vacancy.

Now if XJ and 9E do not meet their respective allotments, then a ratio formula is used to fill those positions until the allotments are met. Then the fences would open for everyone.

 

[bri5150]

Yeah, I am feeling much better now that I know I can bid what my seniority (which still went down) can hold almost right away. The next big piece of the puzzle I would like to see is what equipment the other airline's pilots are on around me. They must be captains I guess because of the category stuff. At least they had the opportunity to be a captain at some point.

edit. Ugh, I just figured out that if a 9E guy leaves to a major, then a 9e pilot has to replace them. That will work in Mesaba's favor if/when the remaining guys flow. But there will probably be enough to cover the minimum at that point. /sigh...so many variables.

 

[DoinTime]

Yeah, I am feeling much better now that I know I can bid what my seniority (which still went down) can hold almost right away. The next big piece of the puzzle I would like to see is what equipment the other airline's pilots are on around me. They must be captains I guess because of the category stuff. At least they had the opportunity to be a captain at some point.

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

 

[gojo]

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

Now how did you come up with that number?

 

[bri5150]

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

Hmmmm, yeah...I don't think that's right. If it was, either we will be furloughing, or we will be staffed aprox 40% captains and 60% FOs.

 

[DoinTime]

Now how did you come up with that number?

Thats where the Saab CA ratio starts.

900 CA
272 - Mesaba
100 - Pinnacle

200 CA/Q CA
88 - Mesaba
581 - Pinnacle
149 - Colgan
________
1190 total Jet/Q CAs