Pinnacolaba list.

[bri5150]

The Mesaba MEC email straight up stated that 9E has the minimum amount met for the 200's and 900's and Mesaba has not (no specific numbers), so the next 200 and 900 vacancies are all awarded to Mesaba pilots. There is my little glimmer of hope (VERY little).

 

[gojo]

S

Early '05 hire

What month?

 

[bri5150]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

I honestly think they aren't much of a fence at all. Once Mesaba fills up their minimum (not sure where the q's are staffed at for Colgan), then the fences are worthless unless there is some type of displacement or loss of aircraft or something.

 

[bri5150]

S

What month?

I edited it to try and stay vague I will PM you.

 

[CptMurf]

Anybody understand these 5 year fences? No upgrades to other airlines unless certain position numbers are already held by (individual) airline? My take on it is that as long as the fleet doesn't grow, then the position numbers will still be the same. Essentially, it's a 5-year fence for upgrades? The difference is the Qs. If the Qs grow, then the 193 positions would be exceeded and Xj/9E guys could bid there. But as long as no fleet grows on the 900 side or the 200 side, are individiual airline upgrades protected?

Totally confused!

I believe it is this... At the snapshot 9E had 541 CAs. That is the fence, as long as current 9E pilots have 541 200 CA positions filled, then the fence is open for ANYONE in ISL seniority order to bid on. If 9E pilots do not comprise 541 positions, then the fences close and only 9E pilots can fill them (up to 541 that is). This lasts for 5 years. At this point, I believe you have more than 541, so the fences are open for anyone to bid a vacancy.

Now if XJ and 9E do not meet their respective allotments, then a ratio formula is used to fill those positions until the allotments are met. Then the fences would open for everyone.

 

[bri5150]

Yeah, I am feeling much better now that I know I can bid what my seniority (which still went down) can hold almost right away. The next big piece of the puzzle I would like to see is what equipment the other airline's pilots are on around me. They must be captains I guess because of the category stuff. At least they had the opportunity to be a captain at some point.

edit. Ugh, I just figured out that if a 9E guy leaves to a major, then a 9e pilot has to replace them. That will work in Mesaba's favor if/when the remaining guys flow. But there will probably be enough to cover the minimum at that point. /sigh...so many variables.

 

[DoinTime]

Yeah, I am feeling much better now that I know I can bid what my seniority (which still went down) can hold almost right away. The next big piece of the puzzle I would like to see is what equipment the other airline's pilots are on around me. They must be captains I guess because of the category stuff. At least they had the opportunity to be a captain at some point.

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

 

[gojo]

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

Now how did you come up with that number?

 

[bri5150]

Looks like the most junior Jet/Q400 captain is +-1189. If you aren't senior to that, you won't have a lot of options when the Delta Saabs are parked by the end of the year.

Hmmmm, yeah...I don't think that's right. If it was, either we will be furloughing, or we will be staffed aprox 40% captains and 60% FOs.

 

[DoinTime]

Now how did you come up with that number?

Thats where the Saab CA ratio starts.

900 CA
272 - Mesaba
100 - Pinnacle

200 CA/Q CA
88 - Mesaba
581 - Pinnacle
149 - Colgan
________
1190 total Jet/Q CAs

 

[bri5150]

Thats where the Saab CA ratio starts.

900 CA
272 - Mesaba
100 - Pinnacle

200 CA/Q CA
88 - Mesaba
581 - Pinnacle
149 - Colgan
________
1190 total Jet/Q CAs

The 9E guys have this Saab filter, don't they? You know that our combined airline will still have Saabs after Delta gets rid of them, right?

edit: Oh, your statement is true from the 9E perspective because you can't bid into a Saab position if you were hired before July 1st (well, at least for five years). I just pulled this from the award.

For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be​

awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position...

 

[DoinTime]

If it was, either we will be furloughing, or we will be staffed aprox 40% captains and 60% FOs.

That seems to be the big question right now. With the loss of the DAL Saabs by the end of this year and potential loss of other EAS flying at Colgan due to legislated changes to the program, high fuel prices, or expired service agreements, we may find ourselves a much smaller airline in another year or so. There are no customers that have lined up for more Q400s, CRJ 700/900s are scoped out, and CRJ 200s fleets are shrinking. Make no bones about it, the next couple years aren't very rosy. Massive attrition is about the only glimmer of hope on the horizon but that is still about a year and a half out unless the economy takes another trip through the dumpster.

 

[DoinTime]

The 9E guys have this Saab filter, don't they? You know that our combined airline will still have Saabs after Delta gets rid of them, right?

What do you mean? I'm just saying that Saab CA positions started at 1190, per the award. What did you read into that?

 

[bri5150]

What do you mean? I'm just saying that Saab CA positions started at 1190, per the award. What did you read into that?

You said if you weren't above that number you had no options. That is true for 9E, but the rest of us can bid into a Saab captain position. Listen, I really don't want to argue this, but your numbers don't jive for some reason. Why are we hiring if right now we have 40% captains and 60% FO's and that was the way it was going to stay? At the very least, we should be at our current staffing and 60% captains and 40% FO's. Not including the Saabs in upgrades doesn't make any sense.

 

[DoinTime]

You said if you weren't above that number you had no options. That is true for 9E, but the rest of us can bid into a Saab captain position. Listen, I really don't want to argue this, but your numbers don't jive for some reason.

There will be a reduction in total Saab CA positions. There is no doubt about that. What I'm saying is that if your spot is reduced and you aren't above 1190, you won't be able to bump into a jet or Q position. Simple rule of seniority.

Why are we hiring if right now we have 40% captains and 60% FO's and that was the way it was going to stay? At the very least, we should be at our current staffing and 60% captains and 40% FO's. Not including the Saabs in upgrades doesn't make any sense.

The hiring right now would be irrational but it seems the company is preparing for possible changes to rest regulations and the fact that a good portion of the pilots will be going through some kind of extended training cycle over the next year or so. When 20% of your pilots are in the schoolhouse, you need more more pilots just to keep the airplanes flying.

 

[bri5150]

There will be a reduction in total Saab CA positions. There is no doubt about that. What I'm saying is that if your spot is reduced and you aren't above 1190, you won't be able to bump into a jet or Q position. Simple rule of seniority.

Right, and what I am saying is that there are more captain spots in our airline than the jets or q's. Your number of 1190 and not having options below that is incorrect. There are Saabs that are at Colgan that aren't slated to go anywhere at this point. Heck, our LGA Saabs aren't even gone in writing yet. The future doesn't look real bright for them, but maybe we can get some flying out of Dulles from the swap. So you need to add at least the Colgan Saabs to your magic "no option" number, unless you are just talking about 9E guys, then you are correct.

 

[DoinTime]

So you need to add at least the Colgan Saabs to your magic "no option" number, unless you are just talking about 9E guys, then you are correct.

"No options" meant that outside of Saab CA, there are none. I get to define the term because I'm the one who said it.

 

[Seahawker01]

My uneducated opion is that the future is just fine. Everything points to we are getting more q's end of the year. I would expect an anoucement soon. The factory is building q's with first class seats (long desired by Colgan and co-ua) for an undisclosed current customer. that lines up with our options for the end of the year. We have roughly 100 (still short staffed with more in training) captains in EWR plus the Iah pilots I bet we are close to are quota. That means plenty of upgrades open to everyone.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I am having a hard time with this 1190 number. At about 1240, I'm an XJ 200.Capt. Does this mean I'll be down grading soon?

Being that XJ is below the quota on 200 and 900 spots and 9e is above, doesn't that mean the next vacancies must be filled with XJ pilots? While I may not be senior, I may end up higher positionally. I think. This is really challenging to understand.

 

[Seahawker01]

So I was a Saab Capt displaced from LGA with an award for the EWR Q when the purchase of MSA was announced. This morning I was 284/616 or 46.1% this afternoon I'm 1433/2998 or 47.8%. I guess I'm in the group this worked out for. For the record I'm drooling for a JFK base as I live on the island. I would have taken LGA back too but I guess that is off the table.