New AAI ALPA Strategy: Fire SWA Haters!

[PCL_128]

I'm starting to worry about you man. You're kinda talking in the third person here. Its clear who you are so relax a bit.

I think Flightinfo should remain anonymous. I don't confirm or deny any speculation about who I am, and I don't try to "out" anyone else here, either.

So "we are ALPA" aka PCL148 was a hardcore arbitration dude?

No, not sure where that idea came from. If a negotiated solution is possible, then that's the far better way to go.

So wait PCL- you're still a EVP at ALPA national even though you just got recalled?

And what about when you become a Swapa pilot?

If an MEC officer is also an EVP, the two aren't tied together. You can leave or be recalled from one without affecting the other.

You can't be an ALPA officer if you're not an active ALPA member, so once AirTran is SWAPA, any AirTran pilots lose ALPA positions.

 

[redflyer65]

I just hope the AAI NC understand BATNA for the rest of the group, if not, everyone needs to educate themselves. Having a good negotiated solution would be the best for all involved....anything other than that could get ugly quickly.

The top members of FAPA screwed the rest, a perfect example of the way NOT to do it.

RF

 

[-9Capt]

1- Haven't seen one bag tag that says that, especially since we don't have flight bags anymore, and..

2- What Gary decides to do with you guys is really up to him, not us. I wouldn't push him too hard though. That's not a threat, but just good advice...he really holds all the cards in this deal. Not ALPA or SWAPA.

1. I have, 2 weeks ago, MCO

2. How exactly do you think we might "push him"? Would an arbitrated SLI that certain SWAPA pilots don't agree with constitute pushing him?

 

[redflyer65]

1. I have, 2 weeks ago, MCO

2. How exactly do you think we might "push him"? Would an arbitrated SLI that certain SWAPA pilots don't agree with constitute pushing him?

I'm sorry that kind of activity is out there. I don't agree with that at all, and I think a large majority of SW pilots would agree, aka a few bad apples.

An arbitrated list that stings for GK and SWAPA? I have no idea what the threshold for Gary would be. I do believe he has one, but that would be just pure speculation on my part. I really don't see him ruining the 40yrs of culture here over a 'preceived' bad list. Even the 'preceived' part is up for debate. None of this is meant to be a threat, just the reality that we all face. I hope for a negotiated list, I worry that it might be a slippery slope after that...similiar to what Lear has stated before.

RF

 

[texman]

Thats why I have said the culture is in GK's hands. Not us.

 

[-9Capt]

I'm sorry that kind of activity is out there. I don't agree with that at all, and I think a large majority of SW pilots would agree, aka a few bad apples.

An arbitrated list that stings for GK and SWAPA? I have no idea what the threshold for Gary would be. I do believe he has one, but that would be just pure speculation on my part. I really don't see him ruining the 40yrs of culture here over a 'preceived' bad list. Even the 'preceived' part is up for debate. None of this is meant to be a threat, just the reality that we all face. I hope for a negotiated list, I worry that it might be a slippery slope after that...similiar to what Lear has stated before.

RF

So if we all behave like respectful adults and follow the process agreement that we all signed, as it was written, AirTran potentially runs the risk of ending up like Frontier? I respectfully submit, that sounds to me like there is a hint of scare tactic there. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that happening.

I understand the importance SWA places on their culture but there is bound to be upset pilots no matter how this thing washes out. Eventually, they get over it. I'm sure Mr Kelly knows that.

 

[swa737-700]

deleted

 

[waveflyer]

Thx for the response PCL-

Who does elect the ALPA national officers and why would someone who is about to be Swapa continue to do work with them?

And why was said person interfering in the SLI? And with what goal? Or was this just politics of personality?

This is not just drama, the fear I hear the most is that ALPA national will try to poison this deal and weaken the competition through it.

This APPEARS to confirm it, and the perception is important if ALPA's one motivation to facilitate this smoothly is to be remotely believed: that working with this process will win points with Swapa members who may then be more likely to work w/ alpa and maybe join one day. I understand TO has done a lot of good work, but is also politically ambitious and might be looking to score his own points- please take an opportunity to defend the organization you've given so much to and yourself if you'd like.

Bc the appearance looks bad from where I sit.

The difference in definitions of "Fair" between AT and Swapa is a tough enough situation to work through without having a 3rd party, who stands to lose when it all goes through, throwing out roadblocks and poisoning the attitudes of future Swapa pilots.
I encourage every AT pilot, all pilots involved, to make sure you think for yourself.

+1 on not outing FI members-

 

[redflyer65]

So if we all behave like respectful adults and follow the process agreement that we all signed, as it was written, AirTran potentially runs the risk of ending up like Frontier? I respectfully submit, that sounds to me like there is a hint of scare tactic there. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that happening.

I understand the importance SWA places on their culture but there is bound to be upset pilots no matter how this thing washes out. Eventually, they get over it. I'm sure Mr Kelly knows that.

I didn't mean to say your side would come out like Frontier, just that a carefully thought out negotiation on the AAI side would probably turn out better in the end than rolling the dice. This is a completely different dynamic than the F9 situation.

There are still Morris guys here that haven't 'gotten over it' after many, many years, and that included a lawsuit against Southwest Airlines. Those guys got complete pay protected on the bottom of the list and then upgraded fairly quickly because of the explosive growth that followed, but they sued anyway..

Soooo, Mr Kelly knows how long it will take one group of pilots to get over it.

There really is no scare tactic in what I'm saying. I guess the AAI NC will need to procede at their own risk (as it should be), but I do know for a fact (from my own experience) that you can only push the Dallas GO so far, once you reach that point of no return there is no going back. No threat, just giving you a heads up.

Does Gary have a threshold for the SLI? You can be the judge on that, I and most on the SW side have our own opinion.

Here's hoping for a negotiated list so we can all kick some serious butt on our favorite competitors. I'm looking forward to that when this is all said and done.

RF

 

[waveflyer]

There seems to be some misconceptions about the culture-
It's not all hand-holding and lollipops here, esp for Flt crew who sit at the top of the payscale in their respective markets. We've seen bad attitudes fired. We've all been given a riot act if someone in our group is caught or even perceived to be acting counter-culture. People at this airline work very hard at every level and have little patience for those who aren't grateful.
Now if you buy into swa, are a team player and selfless- you will not be able to give more than you receive- but do not confuse yourself on who GK is- you're negotiating with a man who does well, but makes 1/3 of what his counterparts do at other airlines, for better results.

 

[njcapt]

"You use your mouth purtier than a two-dollar whore".

Slim Pickens, Blazing Saddles

.

Twenty dollar whore, Ty. In those days that really meant something.

 

[PCL_128]

Who does elect the ALPA national officers and why would someone who is about to be Swapa continue to do work with them?

The Board of Directors (all of the pilot reps from each airline) elects the four National Officers, and each of the 9 election groups of the Board of Directors elects the Executive Vice Presidents.

Why would someone not continue to hold an ALPA position as long as we are still ALPA? It is still probably more than a year away until AirTran pilots are SWAPA members.

And why was said person interfering in the SLI? And with what goal? Or was this just politics of personality?

This was nothing more than political grudges. There has been two political factions on the ATN MEC for over a year, and one faction finally got big enough to get some revenge on the other faction. It's really nothing more than that. Politics can be quite ugly at times, especially among pilots.

This is not just drama, the fear I hear the most is that ALPA national will try to poison this deal and weaken the competition through it.

There is absolutely no reason to fear this. ALPA National has provided nothing but support to this pilot group for this merger process. The National Officers want nothing more than for this merger to go smoothly and successfully. Another USAirways style fiasco would look quite bad for the Association.

 

[Lear70]

Another USAirways style fiasco would look quite bad for the Association.

Another true statement.

 

[SWA/FO]

It is still probably more than a year away until AirTran pilots are SWAPA members.

You think a year? I know every tranny Pilot would like it before then, except Ty he don't need the money, just wants a title.

 

[waveflyer]

Thx PCL