NetJets Recalls

[ASABound]

Any word on when the recalls might start ? With that said, any speculation on how many guys/gals might come back ??

 

[gunfyter]

...2013

 

[jtf]

Maybe 2013 if the economy does actually pick up. As to how many will come back, I think it depends on how quickly the majors end up hiring. My guess is that as many as possible will try the airline thing and that quite a few who weren't furloughed will also. That said, my guestimate is under 50 percent unless the majors lose 100 seat scope to the regionals. I would sure love to see Continited be able to shove the 70 seaters back out of the tent, but realistically I think the majors in general will be lucky to keep even the current lid on 70 seaters. If they can, there should be a lot of descent or better jobs out there that the 495 can choose from.

 

[gunfyter]

I am just looking at aircraft deliveries. Nobody comes back unless there are more planes. And according to the announcements anyone can read in the AIN... new planes do not arrive until late 2012 or 2013.

 

[jonjuan]

I am just looking at aircraft deliveries. Nobody comes back unless there are more planes. And according to the announcements anyone can read in the AIN... new planes do not arrive until late 2012 or 2013.

How is it that citation is recalling in big numbers and yet they aren't taking delivery of new ac? Also, will new planes be replacement for current planes, i.e. wont most of the buyers of the new planes be current owners who simply do a swap?

 

[XTW]

How is it that citation is recalling in big numbers and yet they aren't taking delivery of new ac?

CitationAir has taken more aircraft.

X

 

[jtf]

Why are the other fracs recalling? The other fractionals haven't been having a fire sale on there fleets. NJA got rid of somewhere around 40 airframes last year and is on pace to get rid of that many or more this year. Until more airframes come in there is no reason to bring pilots back with so many airplanes out the door. We are definitely working really hard when on the road, but somehow management thinks we are still fat on pilots.

 

[OPECJet]

Why are the other fracs recalling? The other fractionals haven't been having a fire sale on there fleets. NJA got rid of somewhere around 40 airframes last year and is on pace to get rid of that many or more this year. Until more airframes come in there is no reason to bring pilots back with so many airplanes out the door. We are definitely working really hard when on the road, but somehow management thinks we are still fat on pilots.

Using NJA management and the work "think" in the same sentence is one of aviation's ultimate oxymorons....

 

[gunfyter]

JJ ...

Other fracs were running about 4 pilots per airplane. NJ already has 5 pilots per airplane. Shall we go to 6? I don't think so ... I think there won't be pilots recalled until aircraft are delivered.

 

[fischman]

How is it that citation is recalling in big numbers and yet they aren't taking delivery of new ac? Also, will new planes be replacement for current planes, i.e. wont most of the buyers of the new planes be current owners who simply do a swap?

Attrition maybe?

 

[XTW]

Attrition maybe?

No attrition. Stagnant movement in seniority numbers. CA has acquired a few airframes which has already been stated as the only reason to recall.


X

 

[jonjuan]

JJ ...

Other fracs were running about 4 pilots per airplane. NJ already has 5 pilots per airplane. Shall we go to 6? I don't think so ... I think there won't be pilots recalled until aircraft are delivered.

. Didn't realize that. Also looking at the lower fees the other fracs charge relative to nj, they are probably grabbing more marketshare.

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah. Before the furloughs, I think we may have been over 6 pilots per plane as they continued to hire ... but never took delivery of the planes the pilots were hired to fly.

So in a way, NJ already recalled pilots as they never furloughed to below 4 pilots per plane (never below 5) as I believe Flex and CA were at 3.8 to 3.9 per plane at one point.

Options Management was Prescient. They reduced the size of the Fleet and of the pilot force from near 1000 to around 400 BEFORE THE FINANCIAL CRISIS! Positioning themselves perfectly to weather the hard times.

NJ on the other hand had too many pilots, employees, airplanes (on the property and on order), a $200 million school house about to break ground... Talk about caught with your pants down.

 

[Fresh Air]

Well GF, I suppose you could be right about the prescience. but as one who lived through the process, I credit the massive layoffs more to the bitter 5 year contract battle. We still had the airframes (in mothballs at our MX bases or being cannibalized for parts) but our owners were leaving in droves so we didn't need pilots to fly them. Eventually Options management won the battle (my own opinion), but it cost both sides dearly.

I am sure there are differing opinions concerning the outcome of our contract battle, and I respect those opinions, but it's difficult to look at our payscale, benefits, schedule, and darn near everything but the crew meal plan and call our CBA anything but an overwhelming victory for FO management.

 

[gunfyter]

Fresh,

I was being sarcastic but failed to use an emoticon.

Just saying ... for whatever reason, Options "timed the market" well....

 

[Fresh Air]

They sure did.

 

[acaTerry]

JJ ...

Other fracs were running about 4 pilots per airplane. NJ already has 5 pilots per airplane. Shall we go to 6? I don't think so ... I think there won't be pilots recalled until aircraft are delivered.

Please do....I can use a break. They're beating us with whips out there!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Re...bwaha..recalls at Net...bwahahaha...recalls at Netjets? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Thanks man. Needed the laugh.


P.S. I'm not laughing at the 495. Anything but. I'm laughing at the notion that they will be recalled in the next five years. And amused by the notion that many of them would want to come back.

 

[snoopy14]

Please do....I can use a break. They're beating us with whips out there!

Its worst than 2007! I'm thinking recalls are coming sooner than later.

 

[T-1GUY]

Please say it ain't so...

 

[glasspilot]

I just heard from a NJ crew they parked 20 planes 3 days ago.

 

[BentOver]

I just heard from a NJ crew they parked 20 planes 3 days ago.

I heard they are telling recurrents they are parking 40 a year for the next few years...Replacements won't be coming until 2013 AND even when they do come they won't keep up with disposals...

Also heard 10 years before they're back to 2010 a/c numbers......


Here's the NJA Thesis..just the rough outline:

1) Get scope relief...

2) Park airplanes

3) furlough

4) sell-off any overrage

Scope relief may cause a temporary problem, which "the lawyer" will eventually work around.....For $20 million a year you'd think Sokol had more elaborate Chairman skills. This plan is just silly...

Congrats other fractionals..You are gonna catch up by default.....

 

[gunfyter]

Was that "Parked" or "Disposed" of?

You know we don't need those Hawkers when they are replaced with Challenger 300's. ... and we go with an all Bombardier fleet before being bought by FlexJets ...when Santulli comes back :laugh:

You know that the reason some people are working hard. When you dispose of a fleet those pilots sit at home and the other fleets work harder.

 

[Fresh Air]

I hear BH is actively recruiting Michael Scheeringa to run Netjets due to his fantastic "people skills"


(Just kidding):laugh:

 

[bailout]

recalls??? what??? everything i have heard is another @350 furloughs coming.... hope not, but that is whats out there..

 

[jtf]

NJA isn't getting rid of 40 airframes for only a couple of years- the plan is to do that pretty much forever. Airplanes get old and they get sold. They have claimed they want airframes to last for 10 years. Lots are coming close and will continually need to be sold away. The key for how many pilots are needed is really how many new airframes get brought into the program each year. I really don't see them holding many airplanes over 10 years since they just get so much less productivity out of them as they age so new airplanes need to come on in big numbers before anybody comes back since there will be fairly light attrition.

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

recalls??? what??? everything i have heard is another @350 furloughs coming.... hope not, but that is whats out there..

Shock value. There are a very high percentage of the bottom 300 that staff the most productive fleets. These fleets will be carrying a high lift burden while some of the more aged fleets get disposed and replaced. Very unlikely that a 2nd round of furloughs will transpire at NJA.

 

[gunfyter]

The same individual talking recalls is also a source of the furlough talk. Can you spell F.U.D.?

 

[BentOver]

More Union busting? Same guy, different scenario,, all within the same couple of weeks..... CBA is technically up for reneg. soon, 1.5.4(c) issues...

Believe him or not believe him.....wish ya could just punch him.....This wouldn't be D.M. the general himself would it?

 

[barnyard]

Shock value. There are a very high percentage of the bottom 300 that staff the most productive fleets. These fleets will be carrying a high lift burden while some of the more aged fleets get disposed and replaced. Very unlikely that a 2nd round of furloughs will transpire at NJA.

That's exactly what we were saying before it was announced the first 495 were going to hit the street.

Mgmt doesn't care what the effects are, if they feel they don't need you, sayonara.