SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[On Your Six]

Honestly, I really think that OYS is doing more damage to the Airtran pilots with his Dumbass comments than he is helping. It is going to be really fun kicking OYS's ass out of ATL when we are one airline. Here to seeing my Airtran brothers online!

I just want them to get a fair deal, and after watching the Frontier offer, I don't know if SWAPA can do it. Arbitration is fair for everyone, unless you are scared of an outcome, one that you planned NOT to be fair. And, you obviously have never been to ATL. Delta owns 70% of the World's busiest airport. And we can't wait to see you TRY to increase the productivity of your gates at the World's busiest airport. Good luck with that.


OYS

 

[ATLplt]

I suppose the logic is that a negotiated solution will help preserve the SWA culture whereas an arbitrated result will be more contentious if one party is viewed as getting a "better" deal.

madjack, What is so contentious about a group of neutrals that take facts and precedent and rule on what is presented from BOTH sides?

Our NC and SWAPA organization does not fear arbitration. Many pilots I have talked to on the line feel that arbitration would probably result in a better outcome for the current SWA pilots.

If this is true, then why do so many of you tout how bad arbitration would be for the culture of the airline? The problem I see is that AirTran pilots aren't going to accept a screw-job on seniority, and SWA pilots don't seem to want a single AirTran guy above them in seniority. So, where exactly does that leave us?

I would LOVE to think that we could all be reasonable in voting on a proposed list, but feel that there are some serious problems in how each group regards the other's stake in the game. I do not envy the job of MC members, as they will both have a hard time convincing their respective groups of an acceptable outcome to vote on.

 

[Bill Nelson]

"Sir, there really was no plan for AirTran without SWA buying us. We had sold or deferred as many planes as we could and we had nowhere to go if we found money to purchase the aircraft. I understand the ALPA pilots had expectations of rapid upgrades and grand visions but their hopes were unfounded. They had not seen behind the curtain, I have. Sir, I can honestly tell you that each AirTran pilot will be better off at the bottom of the SWA list than they ever would have been with a stand alone AirTran. This SWAPA offer is ultimately fair and equitable and it is AirTrans position that you should accept their proposal." .......AirTran spokesman to arbitrator.

"We agree." ......SWA spokesman
"We agree." ......SWAPA spokesman

"We want relative seniority and the extra 2 million because we are pretty and we are ALPA." ......ALPA spokesman

The arbitrators will make an informed decision based on the input of the 4 parties. 3 of those parties will be on the same page. One will be on the Moon.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

OYS you do know what the Frontier pilots position was when they Arbitrated with Republic.! Not that different from SWAPA's postion with them. How is it going with Frontier now?

 

[slaquer5]

I just want them to get a fair deal, and after watching the Frontier offer, I don't know if SWAPA can do it. Arbitration is fair for everyone, unless you are scared of an outcome, one that you planned NOT to be fair. And, you obviously have never been to ATL. Delta owns 70% of the World's busiest airport. And we can't wait to see you TRY to increase the productivity of your gates at the World's busiest airport. Good luck with that.


OYS

Last time i heard that we just started service to BWI. That is what ever USair employee would say to me.

PS Do you think DAL mgt. is a stupid as you say ALPA is ? I wonder if ALPA is gunning for you now to not make it off probation to set an example. Good Luck

 

[tankerhead]

Ahh, such a voice of reason...thanks for those calming words Wild Bill.

Back to an earlier rant of yours, here's a question. Since no SWAPA pilot will ever have to fly the lowly 717, who's gonna get hired to go to 717 class this summer when your (and my future) company utilizes them at a higher rate than they're being used now? Or is Gary just gonna sell 'em to Inbev so they can make lots of Budweiser cans? And don't say "regional feed".

 

[Bill Nelson]

REGIONAL FEED.

Seriously, our contract will not allow for displacements to different equipment regardless of how the SLI turns out. Guys will be on the 717 because that is what they brought to the table or because they voluntarily bid the 717.

The only way to change that would be by membership ratification. AirTran pilots will never have the numbers to get that vote.

 

[dicko]

"Sir, there really was no plan for AirTran without SWA buying us. We had sold or deferred as many planes as we could and we had nowhere to go if we found money to purchase the aircraft. I understand the ALPA pilots had expectations of rapid upgrades and grand visions but their hopes were unfounded. They had not seen behind the curtain, I have. Sir, I can honestly tell you that each AirTran pilot will be better off at the bottom of the SWA list than they ever would have been with a stand alone AirTran. This SWAPA offer is ultimately fair and equitable and it is AirTrans position that you should accept their proposal." .......AirTran spokesman to arbitrator.

"We agree." ......SWA spokesman
"We agree." ......SWAPA spokesman

"We want relative seniority and the extra 2 million because we are pretty and we are ALPA." ......ALPA spokesman

The arbitrators will make an informed decision based on the input of the 4 parties. 3 of those parties will be on the same page. One will be on the Moon.

Bill,

With all due respect ... You might want to give this a little more thought.

There are stacks of SEC filings, recordings of quarterly reports and financial documents that reflect AirTrans status. Nobody is going to stand up in front of three arbiters and commit perjury for you.

The article below is from Jan 2010:




AKRON, Ohio --AirTran Holdings Inc., operator of discount carrier AirTran Airways, reported record fourth quarter and annual profits this morning.
AirTran had net income of $134.7 million or 95 cents per diluted share for all of 2009 and net income of $17.1 million, or 11 cents per diluted share for the fourth quarter.


The carrier joined a small group of airlines that posted profits in the fourth quarter. Continental Airlines surprised analysts in announcing last week that it squeezed out a fourth-quarter profit of $85 million, or 60 cents a share.


AirTran executive Bob Fornara said his airline's results during one of the most trying economic times in decades "shows that customers are very attracted to our unique combination of high-quality, low-cost service."


Standard & Poor's on Monday upgraded its opinion on shares of AirTran Holdings to "buy" from "hold." S&P said AirTran has a bright outlook for 2010 and projected a 9 percent gain on revenues based on more ticket sales and higher pricing. It said the recent rise in fuel prices will cut earnings per share. But S&P said AirTran's shares trade at a large discount compared to its peers, giving the stock upside potential.


AirTran's said its annual net income was an improvement of over $400 million compared with 2008.

 

[Bill Nelson]

In January 2010, the March futures were at $72 a barrel. Oil yesterday was at $112.

You need to listen to the SWA earning call from yesterday and see what Gary Kelly had to say. He answered a question about AirTran and said he knows much more about AirTran costs and options today than he did on September 27th and he said that "where they were with their labor deals wasn't sustainable."

In December after the SWA deal was announced they got a raise? They weren't sustainable before but now they get a big raise after they know SWA is going to pay the bills. These facts will not be lost in arbitration.

That was just said yesterday on the conference call and I'm pretty sure they know a lot more than you and I. AirTran was out of options and money.

I'm not trying to be a dicko but these facts are not in dispute by anyone other than AirTran pilots.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Your red high lights look like a reprint of SWA's last 40 years. Thats good stuff and you should be proud of it but it doesn't make this a merger of equals.

 

[iluvflying]

You need to listen to the SWA earning call from yesterday and see what Gary Kelly had to say. He answered a question about AirTran and said he knows much more about AirTran costs and options today than he did on September 27th and he said that "where they were with their labor deals wasn't sustainable."


You need to go back and read the transcripts. This statement had nothing to do with if AirTran could continue to make money or pay for their labor it had everything to do with the lower pay the pilots had on their last contract which made costs look drastically lower than SWA.

 

[dicko]

Ihe said that "where they were with their labor deals wasn't sustainable."

I afraid you badly misinterpreted his remark.

You do realize that he was talking about the open contracts on two major employee groups ? One of which had been open for over 5 years, had a strike vote and the NMB was considering for release.

That was not sustainable. That was "where they were with their labor deals".

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

To put it simply, FL's CASM was not sustaintable when paying pilots closer to WN payrates. CASM would increase closer to WN's.

 

[Ualexpress]

Gary Kelly was alluding to the fact that AirTran's labor costs were not going to stay at the low level they were. Basically their lower labor costs were unsustainable because of the pending negotiations going on with the pilots and FAs on September 26th.

 

[funnyman12]

The likely hood of an arbitrator ruling on an SLI less than DOH is extremely unlikely. I understand that many SW pilots feel that DOH would be a huge gain for an Airtran pilot. That is not the reality of fair and history of arbitrated SLI's show that less than DOH is not a possibility. If DOH was awarded the SW pilots would experience a significant bump on the combined list and Airtran pilots would take up to a 25% hit on the list. DOH should be the SW pilots hope....Find me an arbitrator whom gave an airline (non-bankrupt) less than DOH. You wont find it and it very most likely will not happen.

 

[Cometman]

The likely hood of an arbitrator ruling on an SLI less than DOH is extremely unlikely. I understand that many SW pilots feel that DOH would be a huge gain for an Airtran pilot. That is not the reality of fair and history of arbitrated SLI's show that less than DOH is not a possibility. If DOH was awarded the SW pilots would experience a significant bump on the combined list and Airtran pilots would take up to a 25% hit on the list. DOH should be the SW pilots hope....Find me an arbitrator whom gave an airline (non-bankrupt) less than DOH. You wont find it and it very most likely will not happen.

Is that because it is illegal like a staple? Did you ever find the part that said a staple was illegal according to MB? I would like to read that part.

 

[iluvflying]

Is that because it is illegal like a staple? Did you ever find the part that said a staple was illegal according to MB? I would like to read that part.

Cometman-

Do you really need this piece of information? Illegal or not IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If you are hoping and praying for a staple you should "have a come to jesus meeting" and come to peace with yourself that a staple will not happen. I am not saying what will (bc I do not have a crystal ball) but history would show that a staple is not likely.

Good luck to you and that meeting.

 

[Cometman]

Cometman-

Do you really need this piece of information? Illegal or not IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If you are hoping and praying for a staple you should "have a come to jesus meeting" and come to peace with yourself that a staple will not happen. I am not saying what will (bc I do not have a crystal ball) but history would show that a staple is not likely.

Good luck to you and that meeting.

I am not a SWA pilot. He wrote that it was illegal and I just want to read it. Don't get upset. I don't believe in Jesus.

 

[iluvflying]

I am not a SWA pilot. He wrote that it was illegal and I just want to read it. Don't get upset. I don't believe in Jesus.

Look at that we have 2 things in common. I am sure you know their is not a document to read. Which could be a bad thing since 1 day either of our airlines could be acquired and we could be sitting in the trannies spot. I hope this SLI will be fair--it could set a precedents (that you might be thankful for 1 day) for the next group of guys.

Good luck to you.

 

[SWA/CA]

AT is a profitable LCC

With over a $1,000,000,000 in debt.