Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan get TA

[RJLoser]

XJ has had the luxury of Mgmt. following the contract and honoring our work rules, for the most part (there are exceptions). It will be the pilots responsibility in this merger to enforce the contract, and MAKE managment follow it. If people let them disregard the contract, it becomes status quo, and unenforceable. This is an area where we, as pilots, must educate ourselves on the contract, and not accept anything that is not legal. The more we stick together in this area, the better it will become for everyone.

Good post. This is where 9e guys need help. Hopefully XJ will show some of the weaker spines here a little guidance!

 

[sinkrate]

Sink rate this is not a step back with JA's. The reason is this, if you look at the whole of the summary. The whole strategy of it is to make it so costly for the company to continue opperating like they are that they are going to change practice to save money. How so? If they JA on a day off they must pay a min day of 4 hours and pay it at 200%. Now we will have to read the language very carefully to see if there is wiggle room around the intent but this will put financial pressure to staff normally. With the health insurance per employee less for the company they may make out better to hire more pilots. In the long term you'll be lucky to use those JA refusals, just a guess.

You assume management cares about direct operating costs. Currently management is leaving a lot of open time and offerring 200% for volutary trip pick ups. It is going mostly to senior pilots at the highest rates. Management doesn't care - they have no plan to increase staffing over the current levels. What might that suggest about your assumption?

A thorough understanding of how the service agreement with Delta generates revenue, what expenses are pass though that they make margin on, what they are penalized for, what expenses they must bear themselves, etc would be required to answer this question. Since that document is confidential we can only look at history for a guide. That history shows that PCL has always persued a business plan of absolute minimal staffing. They have repeatedly paid revenue penalties for failure to perform and have no qualms bout paying double time. The only times they have ever done anything to change staffing levels is when they were in danger of completely losing their contract with Delta for non performance. This would indicate that a strategy that does not affect their operating performance will probably not have much effect on staffing.

 

[Crowing Rooster]

The reason they keep staff at bare minimum is to reduce operating cost, no other reason. With the last agreement it was the cheapest thing to do.

Question now is, with the new agreement, what is the least cost approach?

The reason for the latest problems, 200% for PU's, is not because they don't care about the cost. It's because even with their foresight they can see that they should wait until the merger is done, then hire more pilots if needed. Why should they spend in the short term? Train a bunch of new pilots, then furlough in the future because they hired too many to fix a short fall today.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

You appear to be chasing money. Look at the line awards when they come out. Most pilots say they want the money and then choose the time off. Go figure. Right now the company is offering FO's five hours of CA pay to sit in the sim for 3 hours. None of them are taking them up on it. They choose to keep their day off instead. The company is useing check airmen on their days off - because they can make them do it and a few volunteer CA's.

Why put yourself in a jeopardy situation if you don't have too?? From past experiences with some of the APD's in Memphis, you couldn't pay me Delta CA pay to go sit in the SIM in Memphis on my day off!!

 

[siuflightboy]

You don't buy a car for the sticker price, and I'm not buying this lemon. I'll let the real negotiating begin after I vote no. The Q payrates have a lot of room to grow. Remember, this airplane is advertised as the "Q400 Turboprofits". They are making money when this aircraft flies at 30% load factor. This is a 74 seat aircraft and should be paid accordingly. A vote for "YES" on these payrates is a vote for "NO" toward your next job at the majors. Let's not accelerate outsourcing/lowering the bar. Demand fair pay for flying large aircraft. It's as simple as that. Don't settle.

 

[bri5150]

You don't buy a car for the sticker price, and I'm not buying this lemon. I'll let the real negotiating begin after I vote no. The Q payrates have a lot of room to grow. Remember, this airplane is advertised as the "Q400 Turboprofits". They are making money when this aircraft flies at 30% load factor. This is a 74 seat aircraft and should be paid accordingly. A vote for "YES" on these payrates is a vote for "NO" toward your next job at the majors. Let's not accelerate outsourcing/lowering the bar. Demand fair pay for flying large aircraft. It's as simple as that. Don't settle.

What if the sticker price is going to go up? Would you buy the car sooner rather than later? We have more leverage now then we ever will (in my opinion).

 

[suupah]

You don't buy a car for the sticker price, and I'm not buying this lemon. I'll let the real negotiating begin after I vote no. The Q payrates have a lot of room to grow. Remember, this airplane is advertised as the "Q400 Turboprofits". They are making money when this aircraft flies at 30% load factor. This is a 74 seat aircraft and should be paid accordingly. A vote for "YES" on these payrates is a vote for "NO" toward your next job at the majors. Let's not accelerate outsourcing/lowering the bar. Demand fair pay for flying large aircraft. It's as simple as that. Don't settle.

I Whole heartedly agree with you, in priniciple. I don't think it is possible right now. The graduated increase up to 50 seat RJ pay (which was established as industry norm years ago) is really the best we can hope for right now. Considering the costing involved and the small size of the fleet at the moment.

Looking ahead, as the popularity of faster, more efficient tuboprops proliferates, the rates will become completely separate. Establishing a split rate like the one in this TA is the first step in getting that done.

This is a victory in the first battle of the TP payscale war.

 

[Captainzero1]

Good post. This is where 9e guys need help. Hopefully XJ will show some of the weaker spines here a little guidance!

But the get out of jail card for mgmnt is to do it then grieve it.

 

[xjhawk]

lets just say that half the Mesaba pilots hate this new TA and half the Pinnacle pilots hate it as well. I must say that with colgan getting such great QOL and pay increases they will most all vote yes. So that means this is a done deal as long as the union reps vote to go forward. I must also say we need to be careful from now on because the company already tried to get one past the union by writing differnt language in the TA that was not agreed upon in negotiations. I know our Reps are looking for this type of thing when they review. Just some food for thought

 

[CoATP]

Typical 9E mgmt tactic. DW says "This is what we really meant" and then writes it either differently or iwth loose language. Decision should be based on what is written. Beware of "Best Efforts" language.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Typical 9E mgmt tactic. DW says "This is what we really meant" and then writes it either differently or with loose language. Decision should be based on what is written. Beware of "Best Efforts" language.

I know that the XJ people are going to be reading this agreement very carefully. I have to believe that 9E has learned valuable lessons with the conditional language when it comes to extensions and JM's. There will be examples in the contract showing the real intent hopefully eliminating a lot of this "what we really meant" BS.

For myself I am becoming more uncomfortable with the 2 SAAB rates. Some of them are nearly $4.00 (5%) an hour different. I don't understand the narrower differences at the in the less years of service and the most years of service with the biggest differences in the 5 to 10 year ranges.

The fact that there is a bell curve looking pay scale has me really wondering whats going on...I mean I don't currently fly the SAAB (don't really expect to) but what else is funny like this.

The summary is very hopeful and I can support most it but the actual agreement is where the decisions will be made.

 

[WSurf]

You don't buy a car for the sticker price, and I'm not buying this lemon. I'll let the real negotiating begin after I vote no. The Q payrates have a lot of room to grow. Remember, this airplane is advertised as the "Q400 Turboprofits". They are making money when this aircraft flies at 30% load factor. This is a 74 seat aircraft and should be paid accordingly. A vote for "YES" on these payrates is a vote for "NO" toward your next job at the majors. Let's not accelerate outsourcing/lowering the bar. Demand fair pay for flying large aircraft. It's as simple as that. Don't settle.

More reason the Q's rate are important.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...icts-gallon-gas-energy-shortages-decades-end/

 

[Smarta$$]

More reason the Q's rate are important.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...icts-gallon-gas-energy-shortages-decades-end/

What a disgustingly politically slanted article. Our supply is a very small drop in a very big bucket (global oil supply and demand). It is a GLOBAL oil market. Not drilling our small oil reserves will be just as likely to cause rationing everywhere else in the world as it would here. What is the price per barrel of U.S. oil vs. the broader market?

That former oil CEO, the article, the news (not really) network all have a specific political agenda. Period.

 

[BoilerUP]

An "analyst" or energy executive (current or former) has a financial agenda in predicting the cost of oil and/or gasoline - its called a "self fulfilling prophecy" and happened a LOT in 2008. Every time some dumbass Goldman Sachs hack wrote a "research note", oil jumped $3-10/bbl.

Only a fool would think that energy prices won't increase, but the former President of Shell talking about such an imbalance of gasoline supply & demand that hearkens back to the 70s oil embargo is speaking from his posterior.

Counterpoint to idiotic C-level executive trying to bolster the value of his investments - this one supported by the current president of Exxon
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101220/ap_on_bi_ge/us_guzzling_less_gas