Integrating AAI into SWA

[Ty Webb]

That sounds correct. However, I think the best deal Air Tran will get either way will be DOH with a ratio intergration like 3:1 or 4:1 or 10:1 etc.
Plus a fence for about 1-2 years. That would be fair seeing that you really are not bring anything to the table. You could not expect more than that.

Perhaps you ought to honor your Merger Committee's request to not discuss SLI expectations, even in jest

 

[Cometman]

Perhaps you ought to honor your Merger Committee's request to not discuss SLI expectations, even in jest

It is not my merger committee that will present this. It might be my merger committee that accepts it though.

 

[waveflyer]

Whatever, Chief. It's not up to you or me. What's the point of arguing about it. We'll know how it turns out soon enough.

Speaking of: does anyone know a preliminary timeline for the SLI?
As we know, it can be dragged out for years like at America west, or get done rather quickly ie- delta- and I didn't keep up with that one-

 

[stalker]

Did not want to start a new thread for this question and figured I would find the answer here. Guy I was flying with said he was talking to a couple of Airtran pilots and they were concerned about having to do single engine go arounds on check rides at SWA. Is it true SE GA are not in the PC at AT?

 

[scoreboardII]

On a PC you only do a single engine go at SWA if you need to go around SE. You will do SE go arounds during initial training, but not PT's.

 

[Ty Webb]

Did not want to start a new thread for this question and figured I would find the answer here. Guy I was flying with said he was talking to a couple of Airtran pilots and they were concerned about having to do single engine go arounds on check rides at SWA. Is it true SE GA are not in the PC at AT?

Oh, please. This sounds like flame. Who would care enough to ask? I want to fly with that guy :erm:.

 

[stalker]

Ty maybe you have flown with that guy. Guy I was flying with said you're guys brought it up and seemed quite concerned that they might have to do one. Was just curious what the big deal is .

 

[Ty Webb]

Guy I was flying with said you're guys brought it up and seemed quite concerned that they might have to do one. Was just curious what the big deal is

Maybe they have two dings already.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Your MC does not want arbitration. They also know that they need to bring something to SWAPA members that they will agree to. That's where your opinion of unreasonable makes things interesting.

Here's the rub; Your opinion of what is reasonable may cause more than 50% to vote against your MC's recommendation. That may force Arbitration. Then we will all find out what three arbitrators think is fair or unreasonable.

Wow!!! You know what our MC wants/needs to do and you also know how 50% or our pilot group will vote!! Read your post before you hit the submit button you moron. Have fun hanging around Guadalupe Holdings at your new pay rates....you might be there for a while.

 

[Lear70]

If memory serves, on the 717, both the CA and the F/O did S.E. go-arounds (it's been a few years, but I'm 100% certain the CA's do them and 50/50 on the F/O's on the 717).

On the 737, the F/O doesn't do a S.E. go-around unless he or she does it to themselves (i.e. they're too far out of position to land from the S.E. approach - happens only VERY rarely, and it's only a bust if they botch the S.E. go-around, too). The CA does a S.E. go-around, of course, on the PC. Don't know about a CA's 737 P.T., haven't done one here.

Two new factoids:

1. First "official" SLI MC meeting between the two Merger Committees will be some time in early January.

2. The MEC has determined that, since this is not an ALPA/ALPA Merger of seniority lists, that the normal bypass of Member Ratification does not apply. Since our local AirTran ALPA Policy Manual *REQUIRES* Member Ratification for any change to the CBA, including the Seniority section, member ratification of any SLI agreement will have to happen.

In other words, any SLI must pass not ONLY Southwest pilot vote, but also AirTran pilot vote, or it will go to Arbitration. While I don't see this as a huge stumbling block, it certainly *WILL* preclude ANY discussion of a "staple" of any large portion of the seniority list from the Merger Committees. It simply won't pass vote with the AAI pilots and will guarantee arbitration.

Best of luck to all of us... :beer:

 

[Lear70]

Wow!!! You know what our MC wants/needs to do and you also know how 50% or our pilot group will vote!! Read your post before you hit the submit button you moron. Have fun hanging around Guadalupe Holdings at your new pay rates....you might be there for a while.

The truth is that A/M (via B/M) has a pretty quick timeline once ONE of the parties files for arbitration.

Additionally, Guadalupe won't be around very long. It's a shell holding corporation to make the final transaction occur in the same state for tax purposes (that's all in the public filings). PCL covered it earlier in the thread...

What I *THINK* Dicko was saying (and I kind of said the same thing in my post above), was that it's going to be a heck of a tightrope for both MC's. They BOTH have to bring something that will pass vote with BOTH pilot groups, or it's going to arbitration. If one group thinks the MC's SLI solution is "unreasonable", it *COULD* result in something *WORSE* from an arbitrator.

That goes BOTH ways; could be worse for you, or it COULD be worse for US, that's the risk with an arbitrator; you never know what they're going to do.

It's in our best interests to keep control of the SLI outcome, but that's going to require some give-and-take. If BOTH sides can't do that and it fails member ratification at either carrier, it *WILL* go to arbitration. That's not a slam, just a statement of fact.

As I've said, I hope it can be avoided, for everyone's sake.

 

[T45Flyer]

The truth is that A/M (via B/M) has a pretty quick timeline once ONE of the parties files for arbitration.

I wonder why you guys agreed to go to mediation first. Seems like that process could add quite a bit of time to the whole SLI process.....

-T45

 

[Full of LUV]

The truth is that A/M (via B/M) has a pretty quick timeline once ONE of the parties files for arbitration.

Additionally, Guadalupe won't be around very long. It's a shell holding corporation to make the final transaction occur in the same state for tax purposes (that's all in the public filings). PCL covered it earlier in the thread...

What I *THINK* Dicko was saying (and I kind of said the same thing in my post above), was that it's going to be a heck of a tightrope for both MC's. They BOTH have to bring something that will pass vote with BOTH pilot groups, or it's going to arbitration. If one group thinks the MC's SLI solution is "unreasonable", it *COULD* result in something *WORSE* from an arbitrator.

That goes BOTH ways; could be worse for you, or it COULD be worse for US, that's the risk with an arbitrator; you never know what they're going to do.

It's in our best interests to keep control of the SLI outcome, but that's going to require some give-and-take. If BOTH sides can't do that and it fails member ratification at either carrier, it *WILL* go to arbitration. That's not a slam, just a statement of fact.

As I've said, I hope it can be avoided, for everyone's sake.

$100 bet to anyone who doesn't think this SLI is going to arbitration..... there is no way that you'd get both committees to agree, let alone get the pilots to vote it in.

 

[Lear70]

I wonder why you guys agreed to go to mediation first. Seems like that process could add quite a bit of time to the whole SLI process.....

-T45

Probably because we want to give the process EVERY chance to work. Arbitration is a last resort, I personally would like to find something that is fair and doesn't upset a large portion of one of the groups, as the culture at Southwest is, to me, what makes the company such a great career. I don't want to see that destroyed.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Captain Bubba]

If SWA management visits KATL during de-icing operations and sees those wonders, they'll pull the plug on the acquisition anyway.

 

[WNC Flyer]

It's in our best interests to keep control of the SLI outcome, but that's going to require some give-and-take. If BOTH sides can't do that and it fails member ratification at either carrier, it *WILL* go to arbitration. That's not a slam, just a statement of fact.

As I've said, I hope it can be avoided, for everyone's sake.

I agree, but what do AT pilots have to give other than senority?

 

[ivauir]

Probably because we want to give the process EVERY chance to work. Arbitration is a last resort, I personally would like to find something that is fair and doesn't upset a large portion of one of the groups, as the culture at Southwest is, to me, what makes the company such a great career. I don't want to see that destroyed.

Just my thoughts...

Maybe there is hope a train wreck can be avoided ...

 

[Ty Webb]

I agree, but what do AT pilots have to give other than senority?

This has been answered many times. Gary Kelly understands it, why don't you ask him? Lose the chip.

 

[ivauir]

This has been answered many times. Gary Kelly understands it, why don't you ask him? Lose the chip.

So much for your "don't discuss SLI" pledge.

I understand Gary being VERY nice to outsiders about to be part of our culture. If you make him eat his words it will end poorly for you.

 

[PapaWoody]

This has been answered many times. Gary Kelly understands it, why don't you ask him? Lose the chip.

Lol...I guess you're the expert on what GK understands, Ty, along with SLI Law and everything else that pertains to this acquisition...of course, in his official statements he did say he was going to hire all the AirTran employees, but that some of them might have to change jobs to stay employed...in my happy place he was talking about you and how you are going to be swinging gear for one of us soon , but I could be wrong :laugh:...please don't presume to know what Gary Kelly does or does not understand and will or will not do to preserve the culture of this company that has been the cornerstone of its success...instead, focus your energies on coming up with productive and edifying discourse on how we can all work together to find a solution to this problem that will affect the course of our joint careers...then communicate those salient points to your MEC and M/A committee...and then chillax, dude, no matter how it all works out, you're gonna be way better off when its all said and done...I promise.

Peace
PapaWoody