Future plans for the 717 at the new SWA?

[Cruncher]

We are young pilot group.

Tex,

Over 1400 guys on the current SWA list will retire in 10 years (1416 actually). 1825 retire in the 12 years after the age change catches up (14 years from yesterday). I would not say we (SWA) are necessarily a young group.

The AAI is a young group; their retirement numbers are in the teens / dozens for the next decade (& longer). AAI is going to retire about 209 in the same time frame above.

 

[texman]

Tex,

Over 1400 guys on the current SWA list will retire in 10 years (1416 actually). 1825 retire in the 12 years after the age change catches up (14 years from yesterday). I would not say we (SWA) are necessarily a young group.

The AAI is a young group; their retirement numbers are in the teens / dozens for the next decade (& longer). AAI is going to retire about 209 in the same time frame above.

No, your right. What I meant to say is they are a young pilot group, and that will add more young pilots to list. I just want them to value what we have here so that we can take SWA to the next level. Things are going to be good. We just have to take care of each other. The chiefs got out of a week long meeting last week. 3 -700's from virgin blue are at boeing being painted to swa colors. They are ETOPS ready. The trigger hasn't been pulled, but Hawaii is around the corner. I would assume they will be used for proving runs.

 

[Clyde Frog]

If you really think you will get our CBA and get to keep your seniority, you may be disappointed.

I'm happy that you're so proud of your CBA, but...your CBA has an amendable date, a seniority number doesn't. SWA is king of the 737 heap today, wasn't always like that and certainly won't always be. How long have you been in this industry? Might I remind you of the DAL/UAL contracts of 2000/2001? How many pilots did SWA lose to them a decade ago?

There is a reason arbitrators have historically ignored differences in CBA's. You might be disappointed.

 

[Cruncher]

I heard the Virgin Blue were -800s (hence the SL6 Dec 1 timeline).

Rumor, I know.

 

[MILPILOT17]

I'm happy that you're so proud of your CBA, but...your CBA has an amendable date, a seniority number doesn't. SWA is king of the 737 heap today, wasn't always like that and certainly won't always be. How long have you been in this industry? Might I remind you of the DAL/UAL contracts of 2000/2001? How many pilots did SWA lose to them a decade ago?

There is a reason arbitrators have historically ignored differences in CBA's. You might be disappointed.

Hope you don't think that SWA managemet fell off the turnip truck yesterday. You really think they want to kill their perceived "culture" by pissing off a majority of the SWA pilots or any other SWA group for that matter? They have plenty of options before they let some arbitrator(s) roll those dice. Start thinking outside the box and the picture may become more clear.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

One thing that was mentioned that needs to be brought up again, not all flying is going to be hub and spoke. Look for much of the flying to be point to point, especially after the Wright Amend. goes away. Only having the pleasure of seeing ramp 3 and 4 at Atl at the begining and end of the trip will be a HUGE increase in QOL!

Dick

 

[Clyde Frog]

Hope you don't think that SWA managemet fell off the turnip truck yesterday. You really think they want to kill their perceived "culture" by pissing off a majority of the SWA pilots or any other SWA group for that matter? They have plenty of options before they let some arbitrator(s) roll those dice. Start thinking outside the box and the picture may become more clear.

Unless they know a run-around the Bond-McCaskill legislation, I'd say there's little they can do to prevent the inevitable.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Unless they know a run-around the Bond-McCaskill legislation, I'd say there's little they can do to prevent the inevitable.

I completely understand the legislation; it only applies when the TWO groups become ONE. I'd say there is a lot that can be done to prevent the inevitable, but you have to think outside the box in order to see it. I don't know what the final outcome will be, but I do know what the leadership doesn't want to happen. I have a lot of hope that the two groups can come together and make this thing happen.

 

[Kharma Police]

I completely understand the legislation; it only applies when the TWO groups become ONE. I'd say there is a lot that can be done to prevent the inevitable, but you have to think outside the box in order to see it. I don't know what the final outcome will be, but I do know what the leadership doesn't want to happen. I have a lot of hope that the two groups can come together and make this thing happen.

This is what I call "thinking outside of the box".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwbxEfy7fg

 

[Lonestar]

Frog, as MILPILOT pointed out: there are several ways that that Gary and Co. can affect the outcome BEFORE the SLI even gets started...

I suggest you go back and re-read LUV2FLY's post...here are pertinent sections:

The 717 is cheaper to fly on a per departure basis than a 737, the cost crossover point is around 1100 miles. So I would imagine you will see, after some fence, the 717s moved strategically around our system to take advantage of the lower cost per departure and the seat count.

In regards to SLI, I don't think any one thing: seat, relative sen, DOH, career expectations, career earning, final career seniority...etc. will be the only thing used. It will be a mix of all of these. Which seat you are in the day the deal is done will probably be the same seat you are currently sitting in today, but after the fence agreements expire, the "global" seniority list takes over and you sit in the seat at which your seniority can hold. imo

 

[Citrus531]

One thing that was mentioned that needs to be brought up again, not all flying is going to be hub and spoke. Look for much of the flying to be point to point, especially after the Wright Amend. goes away. Only having the pleasure of seeing ramp 3 and 4 at Atl at the begining and end of the trip will be a HUGE increase in QOL!

Dick

Less congestion on ramp 3 and 4 in hotlanta would be to our benefit up in the ramp tower as well. Hope the increased flights in Atlanta(if we go from the current 200 to almost 300) will be spread out more with less cluster F banks(i.e. 8-9pm)

 

[dicko]

I completely understand the legislation; it only applies when the TWO groups become ONE. I'd say there is a lot that can be done to prevent the inevitable, but you have to think outside the box in order to see it. .

How far are you willing to go ? Do you represent SWAPA ? ....

Perhaps you'll decide that final binding arbitration is not so final ? Or enjoy 1800 pilots payed by Southwest on a B scale ? Research whipsaw.
There are some historical examples either way ....

They will need to redefine "culture", and the book 'Nuts' will have a whole new meaning

 

[dicko]

Frog, as MILPILOT pointed out: there are several ways that that Gary and Co. can affect the outcome BEFORE the SLI even gets started...

I suggest you go back and re-read LUV2FLY's post...here are pertinent sections:

[/I]

How exactly is Gary going to make this happen if AirTran requests arbitration ?

With respect. Gary doesn't get to decide on fences or seniority lists. Neither do we.

 

[Max Powers]

How exactly is Gary going to make this happen if AirTran requests arbitration ?

With respect. Gary doesn't get to decide on fences or seniority lists. Neither do we.

Bingo....Just to reiterate "Neither do WE"...Means both SWA and AAI. Get over it folks. It will be relative seniority minus a few percent for the AAI guys the SWA guys will gain a point or two. Sorry it is pretty obvious it will go down this way.

 

[Lonestar]

How exactly is Gary going to make this happen if AirTran requests arbitration ?

With respect. Gary doesn't get to decide on fences or seniority lists. Neither do we.

Let's just see how the transition agreements play out...then we can revisit this.