Future plans for the 717 at the new SWA?

[asaflyer]

I don't care what they do with those things as long as they make money and the pilots make good money flying them. Hopefully they'll be the same rate as the 737.

An airplane is an airplane.......the money and schedule is the only thing that matters.

What he said.

I, however, wouldn't expect the 71's to be scattered throughout the system as that would provide for a much higher training cost. Maybe not. Seems that SWA has always followed the KISS method and that has served them well in the past. Staying on the 71 in ATL would be my wish as I am much to lazy to go back to training until upgrade.

 

[Citrus531]

I've heard a few folks talking about this recently. Can someone in the know at AirTran give me a positive ID on whether this is a real limitation of the ATL gates or not? Would suck if true.

I work in the AirTran Command Center in Atlanta and I can confirm there are limitations on the gates. Out of 22 gates on C concourse, C1, C21, C22, C14 and C2 are the only 737 gates. Many of the C gates used to have "alpha gates"..i.e. C18, C18a, C17, C17a, etc, etc(Old Eastern widebody gates(L1011).

On D concourse we have roughly 10-12 gates. We don't control these gates, TBI airport management(the contracted out company who does ramp control on ramps 3,4 and 5 handle these and confirm assignments of flights at the beginning of each day). D2, D4, D6, D1 or D1a(either 2 717's or 1 737 which blocks one of the gates, D5, D7(which we borrow from Republic/Frontier, D9(we share with Spirit), D11(which we share with Air Canada, and D11a all can hold 737's.

We get 3-4 gates on E concourse for the international arrivals which are later repositioned to D-concourse usually for another turn(90 mins normally to clear customs, get Mx on board and get the airplane moved...can be a big pain the a** with late inbounds).

 

[inline]

All pilots will be required to purchace a DC9 type rating.

 

[obadie]

Had one of our chiefs in our jumpseat. He had just returned from Dallas. He said we are planning on keeping the 717s and are looking at smaller markets to serve. We are also looking at seasonal flying as in Jackson Hole, Wy, etc. We have three 700s that we purchased from Virgin Blue that are ETOPS and we are keeping them ETOPS. He thought we might be keeping them to do proving runs. Hawaii is just around the corner.

 

[Lonestar]

The 717 is cheaper to fly on a per departure basis than a 737, the cost crossover point is around 1100 miles. So I would imagine you will see, after some fence, the 717s moved strategically around our system to take advantage of the lower cost per departure and the seat count.

In regards to SLI, I don't think any one thing: seat, relative sen, DOH, career expectations, career earning, final career seniority...etc. will be the only thing used. It will be a mix of all of these. Which seat you are in the day the deal is done will probably be the same seat you are currently sitting in today, but after the fence agreements expire, the "global" seniority list takes over and you sit in the seat at which your seniority can hold. imo

I also believe a "windfall" in regards to monthly pay, qol, schedule, career earnings, retirements, benefits, flexibility... goes along way to convincing an arbitrator that which side of the aircraft you sit on is irrelevant. Except to massage some peoples egos.

I think you are on to something here. My thoughts exactly.

 

[johnsonrod]

Not trying to stir up things, but if I were a relatively senior SWA FO and I already lived in the Southeast, I'd absolutely bid the 717 Capt position once it opened up (before the combined fleet was standardized on the 737). Why? Because I'd want to fly an advanced aircraft other than the 737 (debatable how advanced the 737NG is - thanks SWA!) before my retirement.

Although I suppose you could argue the Classic 737s (300s and 500s) operated by SWA provide some variety (non-glass vs. glass). Regardless, I've heard from several Air Tran pilots that the 737NG is a let-down after flying the more automated 717.

Most people probably don't care about aircraft type so long as the paycheck is solid - but I would. Flying one aircraft type for 20-30 years (3-5 legs per day) would get boring. In the end, I suppose the boosted pay check and job security are what really count... Anyway, that's my opinion. Good luck on the integration!

 

[AFcitrus]

I love this forum. A bunch of guys are starting to come to the realization that they are not going to blitzkrieg through the Airtran seniority list. They realize they probably won't be taking ANY Airtran Captain's senority and will have to share upgrade slots that would have gone exclusively to senior Airtran FO's before the merger announcement.

Since their bubble is being busted by more informed people within their own union and on this forum they make each other feel better by continuing to take hits from the bong and spew information that they have no clue about for all of us to read.

I am looking forward to flying with you guys but neither of us asked for this merger and we will all probably end up making some sacrifices for this integration to be successfull. Until the MC's have agreed or the arbitrator has spoken, please put the crack pipes down and stop putting more of a wedge into this issue than there already is.

 

[luv2fly]

I love this forum. A bunch of guys are starting to come to the realization that they are not going to blitzkrieg through the Airtran seniority list. They realize they probably won't be taking ANY Airtran Captain's senority and will have to share upgrade slots that would have gone exclusively to senior Airtran FO's before the merger announcement.

Since their bubble is being busted by more informed people within their own union and on this forum they make each other feel better by continuing to take hits from the bong and spew information that they have no clue about for all of us to read.

I am looking forward to flying with you guys but neither of us asked for this merger and we will all probably end up making some sacrifices for this integration to be successfull. Until the MC's have agreed or the arbitrator has spoken, please put the crack pipes down and stop putting more of a wedge into this issue than there already is.

Did that make you feel better? I am not sure which SWA pilots you are talking about, but this one is supremely comfortable in what is going to happen in regards to the SLI. You guys probably need to face reality and start thinking in regards to the total package instead of which side of the aircraft you sit on. If you really think you will get our CBA and get to keep your seniority, you may be disappointed.

 

[Quimby]

Not trying to stir up things, but if I were a relatively senior SWA FO and I already lived in the Southeast, I'd absolutely bid the 717 Capt position once it opened up (before the combined fleet was standardized on the 737). Why? Because I'd want to fly an advanced aircraft other than the 737 (debatable how advanced the 737NG is - thanks SWA!) before my retirement.

Although I suppose you could argue the Classic 737s (300s and 500s) operated by SWA provide some variety (non-glass vs. glass). Regardless, I've heard from several Air Tran pilots that the 737NG is a let-down after flying the more automated 717.

Most people probably don't care about aircraft type so long as the paycheck is solid - but I would. Flying one aircraft type for 20-30 years (3-5 legs per day) would get boring. In the end, I suppose the boosted pay check and job security are what really count... Anyway, that's my opinion. Good luck on the integration!

Do your parents know you're on their computer?

 

[GuppyWN]

Most people probably don't care about aircraft type so long as the paycheck is solid - but I would.

Said the ERJ pilot. Does your ERJ do arcing full up RNP approaches to ILS minimums?

Gup

 

[AFcitrus]

Did that make you feel better? I am not sure which SWA pilots you are talking about, but this one is supremely comfortable in what is going to happen in regards to the SLI. You guys probably need to face reality and start thinking in regards to the total package instead of which side of the aircraft you sit on. If you really think you will get our CBA and get to keep your seniority, you may be disappointed.

I'm glad you'll be supremely comfortable with the decision. I hope the rest of your FO group will be equally comfortable. Total package has never been used as a determining factor in an arbitrated SLI. That, among other things, makes us very comfortable as well. You won't have any say as to whether we get your CBA or not - my guess is that you'll be the one disappointed when this is all said and done. You shouldn't be since you won't be losing anything but you probably will.

Until the decision is made you keep telling yourselves whatever you need to get through this. Have a good one and I'll buy you a beer when we're all on one team.

 

[luv2fly]

Your CBA is sub-standard; our is not.

This SLI scenario has not been done before. Top of the heap ACQUIRING the bottom of the pile (all in regards to CBA, not a hit on either one of our pilot groups ) So total package will be a determining factor, imo. Fair and equitable means that both sides should gain equally. IF you guys get our contract, which is a gain in every respect to your CBA, do you really think you would also get seniority. How fair is that?

Our mid-level Fo's W2's are bigger than your senior Captains, our junior pilots have better schedules than your senior ones. Not trying to rub it in, just trying to put some reality in the room. I doubt any normal person (arbitrator) is going to give you guys the moon, while not improving our lot as well. The only improvement we possibly can get out of this is a bump in seniority and a shorter upgrade.

I will accept your offer to share a beer with you, but I insist, its on me!

I will say this; when this is all over SWA will kick some serious ......

 

[dh82dvr]

Gains in a CBA don't come out of the pocket of the side with the better CBA. It raises the bar which I would think is a good thing. If someone was 1 year from upgrade, should they expect to go to 8 - 10 years away just because they get a raise? However it works out I will happily have a beer with you, especially if your buying!!
Cheers
:beer:

 

[luv2fly]

Gains in a CBA don't come out of the pocket of the side with the better CBA. It raises the bar which I would think is a good thing. If someone was 1 year from upgrade, should they expect to go to 8 - 10 years away just because they get a raise? However it works out I will happily have a beer with you, especially if your buying!!
Cheers
:beer:

That upgrade got you X $, but as soon as you got our CBA you are at x$+1, without the upgrade! We have all been Captains before, which side of the aircraft you sit on shouldn't matter, especially when everything else is a win.

Hell yes I am buying!!

 

[johnsonrod]

Said the ERJ pilot. Does your ERJ do arcing full up RNP approaches to ILS minimums?

Gup

Are you serious? Oh, your plane is bigger than my plane - so sorry... Dude, have fun flying 3-5 sectors per day to the same cities over and over and over for the next 20-30 years. Yeah, that sounds great... No thanks. How many times have you been to Tulsa or Reno this month? I will have choices in the future when hiring picks up (my flight hours in my profile are not up-to-date) and I have contacts at all major airlines/cargo carriers. I don't need to fly for your corndog outfit - I will have choices. You have no choice except whether you want Tacos or burgers during your future El Paso layovers. But you'll have lots of cash to spend in El Paso and Islip (although you will be exhausted from your multi-sector days and tight turns). Sounds like fun! Yippeee!!!!!!

BTW, my ERJ is far more advanced than your archaic 300/500s. Could the overhead panel be any older? Oh, that's right, SWA is mainly responsible for holding back the technical progress of the 737 program - gee, thanks. You can be proud of that.

 

[johnsonrod]

Do your parents know you're on their computer?

Sorry Dad. I'll turn off the lights and feed the dog.

 

[dicko]

Dude, have fun flying 3-5 sectors per day to the same cities over and over and over for the next 20-30 years. Yeah, that sounds great.

That's exactly what you're doing. Except, you are doing it for 75 % less.
Let us know when you do better.

"Big boy games. Big boy rules" ......

 

[GuppyWN]

Are you serious? Oh, your plane is bigger than my plane - so sorry... Dude, have fun flying 3-5 sectors per day to the same cities over and over and over for the next 20-30 years. Yeah, that sounds great... No thanks. How many times have you been to Tulsa or Reno this month? I will have choices in the future when hiring picks up (my flight hours in my profile are not up-to-date) and I have contacts at all major airlines/cargo carriers. I don't need to fly for your corndog outfit - I will have choices. You have no choice except whether you want Tacos or burgers during your future El Paso layovers. But you'll have lots of cash to spend in El Paso and Islip (although you will be exhausted from your multi-sector days and tight turns). Sounds like fun! Yippeee!!!!!!

BTW, my ERJ is far more advanced than your archaic 300/500s. Could the overhead panel be any older? Oh, that's right, SWA is mainly responsible for holding back the technical progress of the 737 program - gee, thanks. You can be proud of that.

You can't change your arguement after the fact. Your original point was the level of sophistication. I responded by telling you the capabilities of our NG's.

Gup

 

[luv2fly]

Anyone that calls a "leg" a "sector" is suspect!

 

[obadie]

Johnsonrod,
Great news your proctologist called he found your head. Sorry couldnt resist...