SWA hiring and international growth. From Gary

[swaforme]

Right from the news line.

Along with the AirTran news last week, we announced our plans to hire additional Flight Crews for the first time since 2008. As I mentioned, a successful acquisition would bring more planes and more flights, and therefore we would need additional Pilots and Flight Attendants to support the growth. We are tentatively planning to add 150-200 new Pilots and 250-300 new Flight Attendants next year. Since we haven’t hired Flight Crews since 2008, our hiring Teams will soon begin an aggressive schedule to interview and process qualified candidates. We expect to have 100 Pilots begin New Hire training in first quarter 2011, and start rolling into our system in March. Additional Pilot classes will follow as required. Flight Attendant classes also will begin in first quarter 2011, and will include three classes of approximately 100 each. They will start rolling into our system in April. I know many of you have been eagerly anticipating growth for our Company, and I’m looking forward to adding to our Family.
At last week’s press conference, I also shared an update on our plans to change our reservation system. A new reservations system will allow us to fully realize our intent to sell international itineraries and to fly our metal to international destinations. I am very excited about the possibilities this change could bring to our Company. While we are still at least a couple years away from flying our own international routes, we have narrowed our search to two vendors, and will proceed with our diligence process to select the best vendor. Until we make a final selection, I don’t have a lot of additional information or a timeline, but we will keep you updated and informed throughout the process.

 

[B727Driver]

what does that do to the Volaris codeshare? Fades like the Westjet?

 

[Lear70]

And ya'll were worried about no growth...

We're all going to be JUST fine. Congrats to all the poolies who get to dry off and all the candidates who get calls for the interview!

 

[Candide]

I'm still worried about no growth.

If the deal goes through, SWA will have over 700 aircraft making it the largest in history by that measure. Gigantic airlines don't have a tendency to grow very much.

The recent hiring at SWA is a minor adjustment to cover next summer's schedule. The airline has been tightening its belt for the last 2.5 years to rightsize for the acquisition.

 

[goahead]

When's the app page gonna open back up???

 

[ASADFW7]

Some times people forget as a pilot group gathers more seniority so do the weeks of vacation. 500 plus pilots now get to bid an extra week of vacation next year. it may not seem like much, but it is something.

 

[Lear70]

I'm still worried about no growth.

If the deal goes through, SWA will have over 700 aircraft making it the largest in history by that measure. Gigantic airlines don't have a tendency to grow very much.

The recent hiring at SWA is a minor adjustment to cover next summer's schedule. The airline has been tightening its belt for the last 2.5 years to rightsize for the acquisition.

Actually, the hiring for next year is partly because you will be getting all our airplanes instead of us.

We were taking delivery of 6 hulls next year (firm delivery slots, not options); we were hiring 175 this year to cover those deliveries and international expansion schedules. Our hiring has been stopped and you are hiring instead, as those airplanes will be painted Southwest colors and come to you instead of coming to us while we wait on the SLI and final integration.

In other words, about 40 AirTran F/O's won't upgrade early next year because of this.

Just FYI.

 

[bizicmo]

yeah, but what does airtran bring to the merger?

 

[Lear70]

yeah, but what does airtran bring to the merger?

LOL - the irony is killing me...

Some times people forget as a pilot group gathers more seniority so do the weeks of vacation. 500 plus pilots now get to bid an extra week of vacation next year. it may not seem like much, but it is something.

Maybe we'll get to bid it for 2013.

 

[vixin]

Actually, the hiring for next year is partly because you will be getting all our airplanes instead of us.FYI.

FYI. Its because we already added flying into the spring and that wouldnt be covered with the current number of pilots. This summer was JA heaven. Not the most for years past, but alot of it. Thats what the 150-200 are for.

 

[vixin]

yeah, but what does airtran bring to the merger?

Nothing we couldn’t do without them! Except good old ATL. Does it make it easier? Yes. Are there other reasons? I am sure. But hey, what does SWA bring. Not much in the eyes of the trannies I guess. We should be graced with their presents on our seniority list.

Besides those 40 FO's will get their pay and then some when they get on our list. I mean seriously.

 

[Lear70]

I guess it would be more accurate to say SOME of your hiring is for our planes that you're getting instead of us. Such is life.

Nothing we couldnt do without them! Except good old ATL. But hey what does SWA bring. Not much in the eyes of the trannies I guess.

And oh yeah, that whole pesky international flying thing.

As for what Southwest brings for AirTran pilots? Depends where you're at in the seniority order of things and how the SLI pans out. For me, it means a likely half-decade delay in upgrade, but a better pay scale as an F/O in the interim. Likely I will lose about $100k in the grand scheme of things over the next half-decade, but if I get a good quality of life as well similar to what I'd enjoy here bidding in the top 15% of the F/O list and upgrade sometime before I hit mandatory retirement (that's a joke, btw), I'll simply enjoy my line, enjoy my coworkers, have a good time, take care of our passengers, and go home to my family, just like the rest of us.

It's all good, my friend, no stress, no worries, can't do anything about it anyway.

 

[GuppyWN]

For me, it means a likely half-decade delay in upgrade, but a better pay scale as an F/O in the interim. Likely I will lose about $100k in the grand scheme of things over the next half-decade.

Lear,

What longevity are you at Airtran? I'm assuming you're talking about a delayed upgrade causing the cash shortage? If you're on our payscale you'll get your upgrade money either way.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

6th year F/O pay, looking at a 30% minimum pay raise on our new contract (which I have absolutely ZERO doubt was/is more than 6 months away), and a delayed upgrade (which was about 18-24 months away, but now will be 6-7 years IF the SLI is "relative" - longer if it's worse than that), and our CA rates which will likely be 15%+ (and that's taking a LARGE percentage off the union-proposed rates to the company).

So yes, I'm speaking from a career expectations vantage point. I'll lose money. That's life. Obviously the upgrade there, when it comes, will offset the short-term loss, but that's a lot of "ifs", just like everything else in life. Everything's a gamble. Nothing's a certainty. Best we can do is enjoy the now and try to plan for the future as best we can.

 

[ATLplt]

But hey, what does SWA bring. Not much in the eyes of the trannies I guess. We should be graced with their presents on our seniority list.

Excellent, you're finally starting to get the big picture.

 

[TZtoSWA]

If it was me, I would think twice before I jumped onto the bottom of SWA or AirTran's list right now. Unless of course you are out of work...

 

[ableone]

what does that do to the Volaris codeshare? Fades like the Westjet?

Codeshares with Mexican airlines are no longer allowed due to the FAA downgrade of Mexico's safety status.

 

[amF16]

6th year F/O pay, looking at a 30% minimum pay raise on our new contract (which I have absolutely ZERO doubt was/is more than 6 months away), and a delayed upgrade (which was about 18-24 months away, but now will be 6-7 years IF the SLI is "relative" - longer if it's worse than that), and our CA rates which will likely be 15%+ (and that's taking a LARGE percentage off the union-proposed rates to the company).

So yes, I'm speaking from a career expectations vantage point. I'll lose money. That's life. Obviously the upgrade there, when it comes, will offset the short-term loss, but that's a lot of "ifs", just like everything else in life. Everything's a gamble. Nothing's a certainty. Best we can do is enjoy the now and try to plan for the future as best we can.

30 percent increase was going to be before or after the strike?

 

[bugchaser]

For me, it means a likely half-decade delay in upgrade,

Six year AirTran guy.....gonna be a lot more than half a decade to the left seat.

 

[spciii]

Six year AirTran guy.....gonna be a lot more than half a decade to the left seat.

Can't you guys just say '5 years'?

 

[scoreboardII]

it doesn't sound as dire then.

 

[jonjuan]

Six year AirTran guy.....gonna be a lot more than half a decade to the left seat.

At least he'll upgrade a few years ahead of a 6 year wn guy due to relative position.

 

[ERfly]

So, when does the App open?

 

[Candide]

I guess it would be more accurate to say SOME of your hiring is for our planes that you're getting instead of us. Such is life.


And oh yeah, that whole pesky international flying thing.

As for what Southwest brings for AirTran pilots? Depends where you're at in the seniority order of things and how the SLI pans out. For me, it means a likely half-decade delay in upgrade, but a better pay scale as an F/O in the interim. Likely I will lose about $100k in the grand scheme of things over the next half-decade, but if I get a good quality of life as well similar to what I'd enjoy here bidding in the top 15% of the F/O list and upgrade sometime before I hit mandatory retirement (that's a joke, btw), I'll simply enjoy my line, enjoy my coworkers, have a good time, take care of our passengers, and go home to my family, just like the rest of us.

It's all good, my friend, no stress, no worries, can't do anything about it anyway.

I'm thinking this forum is a good place to vent, but thank god we're not responsible for the actual negotiating.

`Cause everyone's full of spin.

When I reason that a 700 aircraft airline is unlikely to grow, I'm spinning one very possible scenario, although I secretly know (hope?) that growth may be possible. I overemphasize the possibility of limited growth to underline my very deep-seated anxieties about this deal.

When you lament a potential delay in upgrade, it belies the fact that the disparity in payrates is so substantial that SWA mid-to-senior FOs make as much or more than AAi Captains as well as ignoring a lot of non-pay benefits SWA pilots enjoy such as work rules, health care, and working environment.

So I think I'm done with reading and posting here. But Lear, I do look forward to having a beer and a laugh on a future TPA overnight with ya.

 

[vixin]

Wow Lear70 you have alot of what ifs in that last post. What if you went on strike and Airtran shut down? How would your 30% raise be then. What if your thoughtful management said stick it, come back for 10% less or we are done. He has already stated troubles were on the horizon. Then SWA could just buy assets and SWA pilots wouldnt have anything to worry about. Alot of what ifs for both sides. They dont mean a darn thing until its in your hand. No airline has ever had any trouble after a strike...never could happen.

Heck Ill bet our NC is working on a 15% pay increase, but only if the trannies take the staple. Maybe SWA guys will only have to work weekdays, no holidays and we will get double time on our birthdays. I heard thats what they are working on.

 

[Lear70]

In case there were doubts of how close we were to asking for a release into self-help, here's the latest email about it from our MEC (4 days before the announcement from Southwest):

September 23, 2010

Negotiations resumed this week at the office of the National Mediation Board in Washington, D.C. The session began with discussions on Section 12 – Insurance and Section 4 – Compensation. Miscellaneous economic issues, including training pay, international override, per diem, and home studies, among others, were resolved. But in response to our compensation proposal made one month ago during our negotiating session in PIE, the company offered only minor increases in later years of the contract. There was no meaningful change in pay rates in the early years of the contract from management’s prior proposal. In response to the NMB’s request, your NC made another compensation proposal later that same day. Our response also included only minor movement from our last proposal in the later years of the contract.

As a result, after two and one-half days of meetings, we were not able to bridge the substantial economic divide that remains. At this point in negotiations, the open issues list has been narrowed to hourly pay rate tables, signing bonus, duty period guarantee, duty rig, minimum monthly guarantee, company contribution to our retirement and primarily the economic elements in the insurance section.

Following the meeting, NMB Member Linda Puchala met privately with each party. Member Puchala indicated that the three-member Board will meet in mid-October to review this case.

We have clearly informed both the NMB and the company of our desire to complete negotiations, provided that the settlement is one that recognizes our contribution to the company and places us solidly in line with our pilot peers at other successful major airlines. But as you know from already announced SPSC activities related to picketing and staffing for a strike center, we are preparing either to finish negotiations with a tentative agreement if we can, or be ready to take self-help if we are freed to do so by the NMB.

In unity,

The MEC also sent out an email to the pilot group informing them that we would be considering the issue of when to request release into self-help at our upcoming MEC quarterly meeting starting next Monday. We are expecting an update from the NMB about the same time, and while we likely aren't pressing for release at this time (for obvious reasons), we are certainly not backing down off continuing to push for a fair contract, recognizing that nothing is done with the merger until the ink is dry and the planes are painted.

I believe the company will be willing to bridge the divide now on where we stand on our offer, seeing as it will simply be a temporary contract if all goes well that costs them nothing since their bonuses are all tied to the completion of the Southwest contract now, and not our own contract metrics.

So yes, the majority of our pilots consider this a "merging of equals", not "winning the lottery". Southwest is a great company and we look forward to a bright future, recognizing the benefits each side brings to the table.

 

[AJWick]

So yes, the majority of our pilots consider this a "merging of equals", not "winning the lottery". Southwest is a great company and we look forward to a bright future, recognizing the benefits each side brings to the table.

Hmmmmm....Pretty much ALL SWA Pilots say you guys won the lottery.

Merging of equals?

PAY rates...We think not.
Company Morale...We think not.
Size of Company...We think not.
QOL...We think not.
Relationship w/ Mgmt...We think not.
Age of Company...We think not.

Well....you get the idea.

Yes, Lear, SWA is a great company and we look forward to you guys coming over here. Welcome Aboard!

 

[GuppyWN]

Serious question. Do you honestly think Airtran pilots would strike now?

I think you guys are in a little bit of a tough spot. Your CEO could personally call every one of you and tell you to shove it up your ass and I don't think you would strike now. Too much to lose.

Gup

 

[Taco Rocket]

Serious question. Do you honestly think Airtran pilots would strike now?

I think you guys are in a little bit of a tough spot. Your CEO could personally call every one of you and tell you to shove it up your ass and I don't think you would strike now. Too much to lose.

Gup

Nice attitude. Was the same mentality employed at Frontier?

 

[Kharma Police]

Nothing we couldn’t do without them! Except good old ATL. Does it make it easier? Yes. Are there other reasons? I am sure. But hey, what does SWA bring. Not much in the eyes of the trannies I guess. We should be graced with their presents on our seniority list.

Besides those 40 FO's will get their pay and then some when they get on our list. I mean seriously.

What kind of "presents" would you like us AirTran pilots to grace you with? Maybe some Silly Bandz or Littlest Pet Shop toys?