JetBlue ALPA drive

[CTflyer]

Why not? It's no worse than the BOB's lying about the facts as they relate to our benefits.

Or the BOB's saying that if we get a union the company will get rid of FLiCA.....Had a BOB say that to me during the JBPA drive last year....

 

[pilotyip]

great insight

Pilots are out in the field with a broader view of the operation than any executive and don't like seeing recurring problems being ignored. That's not the same thing as wanting to run the company.

With that insight you should move into management and make the company a better place, or take charge of the situration and shut JB down until they give you what you want.

 

[Flopgut]

Yip: Ask youself why the best mgts can pay the most for labor? Airline labor's main goal is to be sufficiently inflexible to mgt's whim so as to cause a better class of mgt. Unfortunaltly mgts don't know anything but dollars. So they need to be forced to make a budget. It's a little like FAR 43. If you weren't told to fix your airplanes, you wouldn't, at all! You would never have a wrench lifted. Basic safety is out the window with mgt these days. If they weren't forced to budget for safety nothing would be done.

Labor doesn't need to be cheaper, you need to do your job better.

 

[Regul8r]

If you weren't told to fix your airplanes, you wouldn't, at all! You would never have a wrench lifted. Basic safety is out the window with mgt these days.

Does that make for a sound business plan? Who wants to fly the airline that keeps crashing planes? I do agree to an extent...they willl continue to cut corners where they see fit.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip: Ask youself why the best mgts can pay the most for labor? Airline labor's main goal is to be sufficiently inflexible to mgt's whim so as to cause a better class of mgt. Unfortunaltly mgts don't know anything but dollars. So they need to be forced to make a budget. It's a little like FAR 43. If you weren't told to fix your airplanes, you wouldn't, at all! You would never have a wrench lifted. Basic safety is out the window with mgt these days. If they weren't forced to budget for safety nothing would be done.

Labor doesn't need to be cheaper, you need to do your job better.

This is repeat but if fits here. This is a pilot board so saying anything in defense of management is like peeing into the wind, that it is going to come back to you. CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done. Top management includes many besides the CEO, the CEO sets direction as requested by the board. The CEO has little control over the airline, the airline is run by regulation and union contracts. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity. There is little they can do inside their structure. Other high paid top management personnel, in Operations, Maintenance. Marketing, Legal, Finance, etc. have unique skills in dealing with large organizations. This makes them marketable when shopping for a job, unlike pilots whose skills are nearly universal. Now I will agree that CEO leadership in many cases leaves much to be desired. An issue of ATW in 2002 had an article about “Airline Management a dying breed”, the article basically said no one wants to do it. The good track record CEO’s are going to other industries. With tremendous, payrolls, overhead burdens, and extremely low margins, there is no tried and true path to success. Most have tried to increase market share, but this has lead to low price and ridiculous breakeven load factors in 95% range. What is management supposed to do? Eliminating management will bring the end quicker for the airplane industry, and their salaries are insignificant to the airlines operating costs. Without management you could not operate the airline, The FAA would shut it down without approved Part 119 key management. Would the pilots step up and become management for free in their spare time?

 

[Flopgut]

What is management supposed to do?

Get better! That's it. They need to earn thier paycheck just like the workers. "Kill new meat" is the saying. Mgt culture has gone too far. Look, there is no real problem with customers and there is no real problem with labor. You can overlay SWA [there are several others] mgt onto almost any going corporate concern and the thing will run. Problem is you can't get too many mgrs to agree that they will have to do what it takes to run like that. In most cases, it means mgt will have to do thier jobs better for less money and take a long term vision with thier own careers. You can't get today's MBA swine to think like that.....

 

[kommutrdog]

Problem is you can't get too many mgrs to agree that they will have to do what it takes to run like that. In most cases, it means mgt will have to do thier jobs better for less money and take a long term vision with thier own careers. You can't get today's MBA swine to think like that.....

Bingo.

Game. Set. Match.

End of thread.

 

[pilotyip]

Get better! That's it. .....swine to think like that.....

So ALPA going to help them get better?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So ALPA going to help them get better?

Airline Pilots do not run Airlines...

 

[pilotyip]

Airline Pilots do not run Airlines...

True, management runs the airlines FAA likes it that way. Pilot don't like how airlines are run and want ot change how airlines are to their benefit. So it is then true that pilots want to run the airline. And they will use the threat of a shutdown in order to get it run the way they want.

 

[BeachBummer]

And they will use the threat of a shutdown in order to get it run the way they want.

And managment does the same thing, knowing that we cannot start over from the same position...

CAN WE LET THIS THREAD DIE.

 

[pilotyip]

How are things going to improve under the current "system?" Did anyone answer the question that started this thread?

 

[PCL_128]

With that insight you should move into management and make the company a better place

Unfortunately, it never works that way. People that go into management to make things better always end up bitter, angry, and disillusioned. In truth, the only way to make things better is to get involved in the union and push management to improve things.

So ALPA going to help them get better?

ALPA's job is to negotiate with management to improve the lives of pilots. It isn't to run airlines. ALPA will happily provide management with expertise on safety issues, scheduling issues, etc., but the ultimate job of running the airline is not ours, and management needs to take responsibility and run the airline. Asking the union to make things better for management is about the most ridiculous thing you've said around here, and that's really saying something.

 

[Regul8r]

the only way to make things better is to get involved in the union and push management to improve things.

Wow...I think we all just puked in our collective mouths a little bit.

ALPA's job is to negotiate with management to improve the lives of pilots.

No it's not...it's to schedule with safety. Period. Nothing there about improving QOL outside of safety.

 

[PCL_128]

No it's not...it's to schedule with safety. Period. Nothing there about improving QOL outside of safety.

Apparently you don't understand that a motto is not the same thing as a union's mission. Read ALPA's strategic plan. That's what ALPA is working on.