Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[Cowboy75]

You don't have a case! Listen to what Seham says, listed to what the 9th says, listen to what Parker says in the crew news sessions! Your case is finished, over, kaput, done! Im not going to debate this with you but I find it interesting how a bunch of you west pilots come on this wild west rules forum and post all this garbage and NOBODY else even reads the threads, let alone agrees with your side. The only people agreeing with you are your fellow westies!

12,000 hits. Yup, nobody reads the threads.

Nope, I dont listen to your lawyer. I don't bow down to your great leader either or kiss his ring. He can kiss my a##!

 

[say again]

You don't have a case! Listen to what Seham says, listed to what the 9th says, listen to what Parker says in the crew news sessions! Your case is finished, over, kaput, done! Im not going to debate this with you but I find it interesting how a bunch of you west pilots come on this wild west rules forum and post all this garbage and NOBODY else even reads the threads, let alone agrees with your side. The only people agreeing with you are your fellow westies!

This confirms the fool you are. Then again, every post you write confirms it.

 

[Cowboy75]

Parched coffers (View from the East, pack your bags, USAPA)

“This "anti-raid" clause will strengthen our support against any organization who might seek to dislodge your union for nefarious purposes, including the well-known efforts by the previous bargaining agent who is distraught that your dues money no longer fills their parched coffers.”
-USAPA President Mike Cleary

There is nothing like reading a Labor Day message from a union president filled with fear that a competitive organization will use a democratic process to replace our current bargaining agent. It appears that after 2 1/2 years of utter failure, Mr. Cleary recognizes that USAPA’s days are in fact numbered. We do not know enough about the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) to judge whether this new alliance will be beneficial to the US Airways pilots. What we do know about the IBT, however, is that they are an actual union committed to the labor movement. They probably would not take kindly to a union president who harbors a known union buster or one that leads with a dictatorial style. The Teamsters are about unity, something USAPA is most definitely not.
Our inside sources have confirmed that Mr. Cleary’s new alliance with the IBT arose out of his need to 1) squash a coming ALPA card drive and 2) use their influence to get to a 30 day cooling off period.
He is truly delusional if he believes either of these tactics will be effective.
Just as the Charlotte representatives recently reminded us in their update that we live in America and any one can sue, we would like to remind them that that same freedom applies to a union representational drive. If a grassroots effort initiates a legal card drive to oust USAPA and the majority of US Airways sign cards, there is nothing USAPA or the IBT can do to stop an election. As much as he would like to, Mr. Cleary cannot escape the reality of the democratic world that exists outside his shame organization. A card drive will arise from the strength of the average line pilot, not an imagined dues hungry boogie man. It should be pointed out that USAPA taxes its members more than any other airline union.
As we stated above, Mr. Cleary believes he can capitalize on the political influence of the Teamsters to get to a 30 day cooling off period. This tactic is probably more laughable than his attempt to block a democratic card drive. The west pilots comprise roughly 40% of the combined pilot group. A substantial number of east pilots choose not to be USAPA members or maintain accounts in bad standing. A strike vote by the Union would be an embarrassing event. Most experts agree that a unity vote north of 95% is needed to successfully petition the NMB. USAPA would be lucky if it could garner a simple majority. There is absolutely nothing the IBT can do for Mr. Cleary to fix this math problem.
When your next dues statement arrives or you write your next assessment check for the investigation du jour, contemplate the sheer amount of your money filling Mr. Cleary’s and Mr. Seham’s parched coffers. They are willing to stop at nothing to ensure that their gravy train never stops rolling. What we do know is that there will never be a strike under USAPA and Mr. Cleary cannot stop the true power of democracy.

 

[Deadalus]

You don't have a case! Listen to what Seham says, listed to what the 9th says, listen to what Parker says in the crew news sessions! Your case is finished, over, kaput, done! Im not going to debate this with you but I find it interesting how a bunch of you west pilots come on this wild west rules forum and post all this garbage and NOBODY else even reads the threads, let alone agrees with your side. The only people agreeing with you are your fellow westies!

Are you really this dumb.
#1 Seham is taking you to the cleaners.
#2 Parker asked the courts to clarify, because his lawyers are well aware that the ninth didn't say USAPA can negotiate DOH.
#3 Did you read what the 9th said? If you get a contract with DOH the DFR is ripe.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Why is this so difficult? US Air has 2.8 times as many pilots as AWA. For every 2.8 USAir seniority numbers, insert one AWA seniority number. Round up on the .5's. Everybody keeps their relative seniority and mosat keep their position. Those who were in the top 10% still are and those in the bottom 10% still are, thus preserving everybody's career expectations before the merger happened.

I know all the USAir pilots want their seniority advantage back, but I'm also sure the AWA pilots want their financial advantage back, so compromise.

 

[Ocity]

Why is this so difficult? US Air has 2.8 times as many pilots as AWA. For every 2.8 USAir seniority numbers, insert one AWA seniority number. Round up on the .5's. Everybody keeps their relative seniority and mosat keep their position. Those who were in the top 10% still are and those in the bottom 10% still are, thus preserving everybody's career expectations before the merger happened.

I know all the USAir pilots want their seniority advantage back, but I'm also sure the AWA pilots want their financial advantage back, so compromise.

Because to do as you say would remove the East pilots ability to rebuild their disastrous careers on the backs of innocent pilots of another unrelated airline. Honestly, without the buffoonery of their fake union, how else can over 1000 UNEMPLOYED pilots with less than 3 YEARS service leapfrog over gainfully employed captains at an airline they never worked for? How else can they grab their windfall?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why is this so difficult? US Air has 2.8 times as many pilots as AWA. For every 2.8 USAir seniority numbers, insert one AWA seniority number. Round up on the .5's. Everybody keeps their relative seniority and mosat keep their position. Those who were in the top 10% still are and those in the bottom 10% still are, thus preserving everybody's career expectations before the merger happened.

I know all the USAir pilots want their seniority advantage back, but I'm also sure the AWA pilots want their financial advantage back, so compromise.

Psst, don't tell anybody, but that's basically the Nic, except for the top AWA guys who are forced to take a little extra screwin'.

 

[jbDC9]

Why is this so difficult?

Because the Easties are retarded. Their head cheerleader, St. Nic, went full retard.

...so compromise.

Nah, Easties don't know the meaning of the word. Too long, too many letters. They top out at a 3 letters; D-O-H. Gold standard. Riiiight.

 

[Cowboy75]

Psst, don't tell anybody, but that's basically the Nic, except for the top AWA guys who are forced to take a little extra screwin'.

WHAT IS FAIR ACCORDING TO USAPA?
According to the US AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOCIA­TION (USAPA), a date-of-hire seniority integration that undermines the jobs and career expectations from the former America West Airline pilots is fair. USAPA's date-of-hire seniority list places 83% of former America West Airline Pilots below ALL active former US Airways pilots. As a result, only 11% of the former America West Airline Pilots would hold Captain positions outside of Phoenix. What else does this mean? In the event of a furlough, over 75% of the former America West Airline Pilots, all of which brought active jobs to the merger, would find themselves unemployed before any former US Airways pilot. If a reduction in the pilot workforce exceeded 25%, 93% of the former America West Airlines Captains would be downgraded! This is in stark contrast to the fairness of the relative-seniority integration that was agreed to and awarded by impartial and binding arbitra­tion.

 

[charlie2]

I don't understand why so many westicals seem so surprised that the eastinfections are putting up such a fight. All the "integrity" and "2.8 as many east pilot" arguments may seem to make sense until you put a man with 2 MONTHS of service ahead of a man with 16.4 YEARS of service. Ya I know he was furloughed but he (we) will fight to the death. I'm just sayin...

 

[Cowboy75]

I don't understand why so many westicals seem so surprised that the eastinfections are putting up such a fight. All the "integrity" and "2.8 as many east pilot" arguments may seem to make sense until you put a man with 2 MONTHS of service ahead of a man with 16.4 YEARS of service. Ya I know he was furloughed but he (we) will fight to the death. I'm just sayin...

I did not get hired at the acquiring airline to have someone take my job because they feel entititled and empowered by arrrogance and a sense of superiority.

Pilots flying the day the acquisition was announced should expect to keep their jobs. Furloughed pilots should be recalled when a position is available, not by taking the position of a pilot who brought a job to the acquisition of us air.

 

[Ocity]

Ya I know he was furloughed but he (we) will fight to the death. I'm just sayin...

Prepare to meet your proverbial maker then union buster....Just sayin'

 

[Deadalus]

I don't understand why so many westicals seem so surprised that the eastinfections are putting up such a fight. All the "integrity" and "2.8 as many east pilot" arguments may seem to make sense until you put a man with 2 MONTHS of service ahead of a man with 16.4 YEARS of service. Ya I know he was furloughed but he (we) will fight to the death. I'm just sayin...

Ya you know he was furloughed? Are you kidding? No job at the acquired airline and you want to jump ahead of active pilots. Quite a case of entitlement there. Just keep fighting genius, you'll end up with the Nic and a crappy contract. In your case I think stupid is really going to hurt.

 

[jbDC9]

....you put a man with 2 MONTHS of service ahead of a man with 16.4 YEARS of service.

What all the easties seem to forget or just ignore is the fact that 16.4 years of service gets you what, a junior FO seat? And they say the West guys are looking for a windfall... ha!

 

[Guppiedriver]

I don't understand why so many westicals seem so surprised that the eastinfections are putting up such a fight. All the "integrity" and "2.8 as many east pilot" arguments may seem to make sense until you put a man with 2 MONTHS of service ahead of a man with 16.4 YEARS of service. Ya I know he was furloughed but he (we) will fight to the death. I'm just sayin...

But it's OK to put a east F/O who was hired in '89 that has 8 years LOS, in front of a continuously employed west captain that was hired in '89 and has been a captain since '99....RIGHT?

 

[charlie2]

HELP!!! MCDU HELP!!!! No seriously will you young guys feel any entitlement if you ever make it to 16 years with a major? You should. Everyone knows this business is prone to ups and downs. Before many of you were born there were pilots who were furloughed for a few months or a few years and then recalled into a hiring boom. I just think its sick for a group to exploit this fact and take advantage of a group suffering a down cycle. Good luck to you.

 

[MCDU]

It is the PFT generation. They see things different. Just a few years ago Skybus was hiring upgrading. Kind of like AWA.

M

 

[Ocity]

HELP!!! MCDU HELP!!!! No seriously will you young guys feel any entitlement if you ever make it to 16 years with a major? You should. Everyone knows this business is prone to ups and downs. Before many of you were born there were pilots who were furloughed for a few months or a few years and then recalled into a hiring boom. I just think its sick for a group to exploit this fact and take advantage of a group suffering a down cycle. Good luck to you.

Don't care about your suffering. You should have seen the writing on the wall and left. You should have started over at a viable carrier. Your horrible career does not give you carte blanche to then become a parasite and feed off of those you deem fortunate "enough".

 

[Hpilot]

It is the PFT generation. They see things different. Just a few years ago Skybus was hiring upgrading. Kind of like AWA.

M

Nice try mcdoosh. Never paid for a job, didn't even pay for multi-time. Willing to bet I had a lot more experience when I was hired at AWA than you did when hired at US Air. If Skybus grew to become a major airline and then bought a failing legacy carrier, then yeah you could compare the two......idiot.

 

[get2flyin]

HELP!!! MCDU HELP!!!! No seriously will you young guys feel any entitlement if you ever make it to 16 years with a major? You should. Everyone knows this business is prone to ups and downs. Before many of you were born there were pilots who were furloughed for a few months or a few years and then recalled into a hiring boom. I just think its sick for a group to exploit this fact and take advantage of a group suffering a down cycle. Good luck to you.

You're standing in the middle of the road and a car is coming. Another pedestrian crossing the street tries to help you get out of the road but instead you try to justify why he should trade places and get hit while you take his wallet and go merrily on your way. That makes perfect sense, right?

Yeah, damn you West pilots and your foolish greed!