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ASA & Expressjet Newest

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whymeworry? said:
If Jerry wants this deal that badly, he'll accept the terms TOLD to him by UAL/ CAL. And those terms will be somewhat influenced by XJT's scope agreement.
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It's not the deal that he wants, it's the flying. If he can't get it on his terms with XE he'll get it without them. It'll just take longer.

As smart as he is, he's even more patient.
 
If you guys don't all get on one list, you're better off going on your own. Somebody is going to lose on this deal. If you stay together it'll get evened out and everyone will be able to shift around with minimal lose. If not, you'll be better off on your own and have a 1 out of 3 chance of getting screwed. The writing is on the wall, RJ's are gonna get hit hard on this deal. I don't mean any disrespect, but don't think your more important to the operation then you are. And don't underestimate mainline's willingness to get rid of relaxed scope or their pull with management. I remember when DALPA wanted to control the RJs by stapling ASA on the bottom. But they said no, DOH. Look how well that and the RJDC turned out. The UA guys are pissed with how many RJs have taken over their flying. CO guys won't allow anything larger then a 50 seater and their Union Pres. said they're willing to do RJ flying to get everything back under one roof. The new UA/CO CEO is from CO and has the respect of his pilot group. The easiest way for him to gain the respect of the UA pilots is to not be Tilton, tighten their scope, and put their 1,000+ pilots on furlough in a plane, even if it's a RJ! The ERJs are already owned by CO, ASA still does mostly DL, so who do you think will be hurt the most with this if the lists stay separate? History has proved time and time again that pilots are their own worst enemies. Band together and don't repeat it.
 
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If it was all about cockpit crew rates, you might have a chance, but there's more to it than that. The great scope give away over the last ten years has resulted in a total drive down of the costs. Dispatch, maintenance, cabin crew-you name it-it's all cheaper at the regionals.

It's the relaxed scope which resulted in many of us being stuck here, not in a position to make a move to mainline, with a complete loss of seniority.

You want the planes? Fine. Take them all and take the crews. Leave us down here with just a couple props or jets and mainline management will simply use us against you again.

Don't get your own little case of SJS for just the bigger RJs. That would be so lame!!!

Have the nuts to really fix what you claim is ailing the industry, or just quit your whining. Any half-azzed solution is simply showing what an elitist hypocritical bunch mainline pilots really are.
 
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buscap said:
Don't get your own little case of SJS for just the bigger RJs. That would be so lame!!!

Have the nuts to really fix what you claim is ailing the industry, or just quit your whining. Any half-azzed solution is simply showing what an elitist hypocritical bunch mainline pilots really are.
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Hey buscap, relax. As I said in my previous post, I'm a former ASA pilot who doesn't want to see his friends still there get screwed. I was there when DALPA wanted to staple us to solve the problem but the ASA MEC decided that was unfair and demanded DOH/relative seniority/ALPA M&A Policy. Then after 9/11 I remember people in the ASA MEC saying Delta needed them more then we needed Delta so now was our chance to get it. I was mad when we got the 70 seaters because I knew every one we got meant the longer i would be there. As far as me "whining" or "Having the nuts to really fix what I claim is ailing the industry" I am. I don't work for UA, CO, or DL. If my company ever decides to get RJs, props, even a helicopter, we will fly it. It cannot and will not be contracted out. We've made sure that it must be flown by our seniority list. I'm not giving "Any half-azzed solution". I'm not giving any solutions. All I'm saying is due to what the CO MEC Pres said, you may all want to prepare for losing some flying and collectively figure out together what the best action would be for all of you to take to help each other out in case what he's trying to do comes true. If you prepare for it now, you'll be able to handle it better in the future if it does happen and minimize the damages it may bring.
 
snozberry said:
Hey buscap, relax. As I said in my previous post, I'm a former ASA pilot who doesn't want to see his friends still there get screwed. I was there when DALPA wanted to staple us to solve the problem but the ASA MEC decided that was unfair and demanded DOH/relative seniority/ALPA M&A Policy. Then after 9/11 I remember people in the ASA MEC saying Delta needed them more then we needed Delta so now was our chance to get it. I was mad when we got the 70 seaters because I knew every one we got meant the longer i would be there. As far as me "whining" or "Having the nuts to really fix what I claim is ailing the industry" I am. I don't work for UA, CO, or DL. If my company ever decides to get RJs, props, even a helicopter, we will fly it. It cannot and will not be contracted out. We've made sure that it must be flown by our seniority list. I'm not giving "Any half-azzed solution". I'm not giving any solutions. All I'm saying is due to what the CO MEC Pres said, you may all want to prepare for losing some flying and collectively figure out together what the best action would be for all of you to take to help each other out in case what he's trying to do comes true. If you prepare for it now, you'll be able to handle it better in the future if it does happen and minimize the damages it may bring.
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Your company is obviously apples and oranges compared to the majors, therefore you will never face the RJ scope issue.

Now good luck with the international stuff.

That's your fight.

Sorry I thought you were a Gen Lee clone, trying to run one up my peanut shooter.:blush:
 
You guys are giving the egomaniac mainline pilots way to much credit for finding unity, and working together. If it happens, so be it, but now that they are trying to take our flying, and not give two sh!ts about what happens to us, guess they won't mind when we take more of their flying, and they get furloughed.

*Disclaimer*--- My experience for mainline pilot egos is taken from the double breasted dipsh!ts at Delta. It may be possible that some pilots at the mainline carriers actually have a soul, and can work with, and respect their fellow man. If that turns out to be the case, then I will admit being wrong with full humility.
 
outtahere said:
*Disclaimer*--- My experience for mainline pilot egos is taken from the double breasted dipsh!ts at Delta. It may be possible that some pilots at the mainline carriers actually have a soul, and can work with, and respect their fellow man. If that turns out to be the case, then I will admit being wrong with full humility.
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There's a handful of folks like that. They're the ASA FO's who just got hired at mainline. But that'll change with time.
 
LazyLightnin' said:
Too many. Hell, one is one too many. Of course, they are "special".
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Whatever you lazy noodles! Jealousy sucks, and you have it. Nobody is wishing for someone elses demise, rather pointing out history and what should NOT have happened in the past. Wake up you fruit basket.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
outtahere said:
You guys are giving the egomaniac mainline pilots way to much credit for finding unity, and working together. If it happens, so be it, but now that they are trying to take our flying, and not give two sh!ts about what happens to us, guess they won't mind when we take more of their flying, and they get furloughed.

*Disclaimer*--- My experience for mainline pilot egos is taken from the double breasted dipsh!ts at Delta. It may be possible that some pilots at the mainline carriers actually have a soul, and can work with, and respect their fellow man. If that turns out to be the case, then I will admit being wrong with full humility.
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Hey, Hey, I am one of those guys you can work with! So, can you get me a coke please? With ice too. Thanks. And, we also need a cockpit trash bag. We'll call you guys when you can get up, so please stay seated until we do so. ;)



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
snozberry said:
And don't underestimate mainline's willingness to get rid of relaxed scope or their pull with management.

I'll put $100 on the fact that it will never happen--or more!

I remember when DALPA wanted to control the RJs by stapling ASA on the bottom. But they said no, DOH. Look how well that and the RJDC turned out.
Hmm! That never happened! Just a Contract 2000 Giambusso Urban Myth propaganda campaign to build unity--and they bought it! IMHO, RJDC succeeded! But, you would have to know the underlying issues and the results of the action--not just the settlement!
Sure you were at the same ASA?

The UA guys are pissed with how many RJs have taken over their flying. CO guys won't allow anything larger then a 50 seater and their Union Pres. said they're willing to do RJ flying to get everything back under one roof. The new UA/CO CEO is from CO and has the respect of his pilot group. The easiest way for him to gain the respect of the UA pilots is to not be Tilton, tighten their scope, and put their 1,000+ pilots on furlough in a plane, even if it's a RJ!
Who gave it up?

The ERJs are already owned by CO, ASA still does mostly DL, so who do you think will be hurt the most with this if the lists stay separate? History has proved time and time again that pilots are their own worst enemies. Band together and don't repeat it.
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And History repeats itself, over and over, because human conditioning never changes! It will sound like an auction, do I hear 20, 20, 20%? Sold to the repeat buyers! Proof will once again be in the pudding! Don't forget--Continental/United (and the pilots) are in a competitive environment! What is your competition doing?
 
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rstev1955 said:
Wrong.

IF, and that is a big if, XJT can survive 5 more years of bleeding cash every quarter (there is no current source of revenue that can ever make XJT profitable), then in 5 years XJT will be going, going, gone. The CPA with UAL ends in 3 years and if they say no to this I doubt will be renewed. The CPA with CAL ends in 5 years and will definitely not be renewed. Even if they wanted to renew it, the aircraft leases start coming up in 5 years and CAL/UAL will not be leasing aircraft to a regional ever again. So who has the financial stability and credit rating to lease replacement aircraft? Only 2 or 3 airlines out there and XJT isn't one of them. Skywest, Inc., however, does, and it is already obvious that CAL/UAL want them to be long term partners.

It's time to accept reality. XJT takes the deal and gets the best that they can now, or they all start looking for another job in 5 years.
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Sounds like a regional lifer. I hope we are all out of the regionals in less than 5 years. Except for you that wants to stay.
 
ASA/XJT merger will benefit both pilot groups..YES BOTH! We are merging guys. Stop your whining. XJT MEC is working there tail off to protect against whipsaw. Both pilot groups will benefit. Lets all act like gentlemen..
 

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