ASA & Expressjet Newest

[Medeco]

Lets not forget an important fact or two.

The ASA MEC is telling people off the record that they think XJT pilots are crazy to try to enforce this 3 way. Why? Because the ASA MEC will be out numbered and immediately voted out with the first opportunity.

They are also scared that ALPA would be voted off the property at some point.

So, the OP is from the ASA MEC. Lets see what comes from the XJT MEC.


I agree JA and company are posturing. As if they would show up to this meeting and say "ohh, ok you got us we give"

 

[Whydoitry]

For goodness sakes, get on board with ASA, workout an industry leading contract with industry leading scope protection to prevent whipsaw, then lets work on getting Skywest on-board later. We gotta crawl before we can walk.

It will be a sad sad day of "what could have been" if XJT pilots decide to be chest thumpers, kill the deal, and lose their jobs a year or two down the road due to bankruptcy, when they could have still been flying around with an industry leading contract.

We have industry leading scope protection, that is the issue.

Why should we give that away just to renegotiate it again, just to have it ignored again. What was that definition of learning we had to memorize to get our CFI's? No, forget it, if the XJT pilots are allowed a vote on giving up scope even with "strong protection language", I feel pretty confident that it will fail. We have been witness to management violations of our contract for the past year, and no one trusts them anymore. So I don't think that anyone would trust ASA or SKW management at this point.

Let's not forget that a stand alone XJT will be the largest carrier for the new United-Continental Holding Company.

 

[777forever]

We have industry leading scope protection, that is the issue.

Why should we give that away just to renegotiate it again, just to have it ignored again. What was that definition of learning we had to memorize to get our CFI's? No, forget it, if the XJT pilots are allowed a vote on giving up scope even with "strong protection language", I feel pretty confident that it will fail. We have been witness to management violations of our contract for the past year, and no one trusts them anymore. So I don't think that anyone would trust ASA or SKW management at this point.

Let's not forget that a stand alone XJT will be the largest carrier for the new United-Continental Holding Company.

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

 

[Abernathy]

777forever, wouldn't you think you'd be junior for a lot longer with an integrated XJT/ASA list?

I don't know if that's something you really care about, either way. Just wondering..

I don't see how XJT deciding to either play ball with Jerry or deciding to go it alone could really hurt ASA in the end, whichever way they choose to go. Mostly I would think it would keep the status quo. At worst, with a merger, the junior ASA folks would stay junior FOs for several more years to come.

 

[cybourg10]

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

You are quite cocky for someone without a lot of skins on the wall.

 

[Whydoitry]

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

I'm not so sure JA want's to compete against XJT for UAL business. I wouldn't be so quick to think he will just walk away, after all he came back to try the deal again.

 

[JumpersAway]

To be honest, I don't care either way. ASA was fine without XJ a few weeks ago, and they will be fine some more in the future.

Does anyone expect the XJ MEC to hold a membership vote on the subject, or will it be left up to the MEC? What's the next move? Rumor has it JA gave the JX MEC a week to arrive at a decision, otherwise he was going to abandon the deal.

 

[IUSTACHECKEM]

You lost 20 Mil this past qtr (one of the better ones for most airlines)......100 mil cash left........ 5 qtrs left at that consumption rate and at the same time your contracts expire with CA/UA.

Then again you negoiate a larger below cost deal to keep the your flying (as you are now biding below cost to reduce the hemerage) and .......then you dont have cash to continue to hemerage.

Looks like those are the facts other than SKYW has already negoiated your future (aircraft and sounds like a rate above cost).......question is, is it with or without you?

JA will not merge the motherland.

 

[Data]

If I were in an XJT pilot's shoes, I'd really have to wonder how much I was really 'giving up' to become a part of a well run, profitable very large organization. Of course, we don't know yet what you're giving up, but you aren't becoming part of a sh!t airline. It's not all roses (and I'm not suggesting that you should accept any crap deal forced down your throat, ASA has a pretty good contract) but given the shape of the regional industry you have to know that you're either going to die slowly or become a part of either Republic, Pinnacle or SkyWest. What other options are there? Go it alone with a crap load of 50 seaters and very high costs, or get played for some moderate changes but know that you're future, until you move on to a Major, or if you're a lifer, until retirement, will be with a solid, profitable company?

Say what you will about Jerry and company, of course they want this deal, it does many things for them, but don't fool yourselves into thinking you've got them where you want them (the new car analogy was pretty lame). If, for whatever reason, integration of the 3 companes does not happen, and it won't, don't think for a second that they won't walk away from the deal. That 15 year agreement they've ironed out with United going forward, do you really think XJT will just be able to drop into the same deal and continue on? Yeah, good luck with that, the loans that Skywest have with United are 'securing' some of that, you don't have crap for leverage without some $$$$ backing. So without the contract going forward, guess what? You're going to have to compete for that business against Skywest (and others) and you will lose some of that flying. Period. Even if it's 20-30 planes, how many furloughs will that be? You guys have a sh!t load of planes, what of you lose half of the flying in the free-for-all as your contracts expire? What will your quality of life be then? I'm guessing not nearly as good as it will be with this deal.

PS, if I get bumped from my thick-a$$ vessel, I'm gonna be pissed! :laugh:

 

[Beergut]

Word on the street is that JA told the XJT MEC that if they insist on the 3-way integration that he will drop the deal. I also heard that after a few beers in Vegas the XJT guys true colors came out and that they think they're gonna come in and take over. If that's the case then I hope the deal falls through and those guys can fend for themselves. (Obviously this is all hearsay.)

 

[rumorhasit]

My question is if XJT is such a sh!TTY company why is skywest buying them? What are the plans for Express?

 

[rumorhasit]

I believe there is more to this story than just some regionals merging. This is about CALs scope of a/c smaller than 50seats and I'm sure United values the merger with CAL more than loyalty to skywest. Xjt has operated under CAL scope and have a very good position to continue with the new bigger united.

 

[amcnd]

BINGO. Furthermore, all this agreement will probably say is "no transfer of aircraft between carriers." However, there won't be anything preventing stagnation on one side (ASA) and growth on the other side (SKW). There are more ways to whipsaw besides threat of moving around aircraft between carriers. Since the ASA side will now be bigger, how about agreeing to ASA getting 3 planes for every 2 planes SKW is awarded through acquisition or purchase from now on? We are soon to be the bigger airline, after all. That ratio should work fine. INC (skw in disguise) will grow the SkyWest fleet very soon. There will also be upgrades. There will be more larger planes. Just watch.

If this whole thing isn't about an attempt to whipsaw (according to management), then why not streamline and make 3 = 1? Curious.

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

 

[79%N1]

My question is if XJT is such a sh!TTY company why is skywest buying them? What are the plans for Express?

Run it better, secure contracts, make money......

That was easy.

 

[cybourg10]

You guys can stop worrying about XJT walking away from the deal. It seems our union is willing to go forward with the transaction and will begin to work on a transition agreement with whipsaw protection similar to what ASA has now. Nothing is official yet of course.

 

[buscap]

You guys can stop worrying about XJT walking away from the deal. It seems our union is willing to go forward with the transaction and will begin to work on a transition agreement with whipsaw protection similar to what ASA has now. Nothing is official yet of course.

Whichever way it goes I am looking forward to working with the Express guys; whether it would be helping with the merger by being a sack-of-crap, nonparticipating, FI posting, dues paying whiner or helping you guys fight the merger by being a sack-of-crap, nonparticipating, FI posting, dues paying whiner.

Either way-I'm here for you man!!!:beer:

 

[damnflyboy]

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

ASA pilots work hard too, you know. Furthermore, we're part of Inc's equation. It's convenient to forget that ASA makes money for Inc. 60% of the backbone if this aquisition goes through. I'm sure you work hard. But SkyWest pilots don't own ASA. INC owns us. And, yes...we're lucky for it. But let's be honest about something. Inc wasn't created to be nice or save our company. It was to keep both sides split and to make money, most importantly. You can not take the credit for that. You were a working tool in management's game. Good for you. If SkyWest Airlines IS SkyWest, INC...then I'm afraid XJT has a valid base to their argument.

I can't stand this arrogance or ignorance...take your pick.

 

[LazyLightnin']

To be honest, I don't care either way. ASA was fine without XJ a few weeks ago, and they will be fine some more in the future.

Does anyone expect the XJ MEC to hold a membership vote on the subject, or will it be left up to the MEC? What's the next move? Rumor has it JA gave the JX MEC a week to arrive at a decision, otherwise he was going to abandon the deal.

Sure you do. You hope it's gets pushed deader than hell. So do I. So does everyone.

Keep pushing it XJT, guys. Do the hard work for us so the thing falls through and we can all keep the status quo. But don't be giant doosh wagons if you see an ASA guy in uniform. Actually, just try to never be giant dooshers... It's worth a shot.

 

[JumpersAway]

Sure you do. You hope it's gets pushed deader than hell. So do I. So does everyone.

Keep pushing it XJT, guys. Do the hard work for us so the thing falls through and we can all keep the status quo. But don't be giant doosh wagons if you see an ASA guy in uniform. Actually, just try to never be giant dooshers... It's worth a shot.

You caught me..............

 

[Baronman]

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

Funny thing is, who cares what SKWY pilots think! You're a voiceless bunch. You get what is given to you...as in NO self determination. Just sit on the sidelines please and do what you do best. Nothing.