ASA & Expressjet Newest

[cybourg10]

My guess is XJT ALPA agrees to the terms as long as they provide a no transfer of aircraft clause and a few other important things. They are currently discussing it with their legal counsel and if I had to bet drafting up their version of a transition agreement. Nevets just wants our scope clause that we worked hard to get to be honored, now that we know JA isn't planning on doing that we must decide what our next course of action is. I agree with Nevets on a few things but personally I believe we are better off with ASA than going at it alone but I also wouldn't mind telling them scope or nothing. We nearly had a USAir 50 seat contract out of PHX before this deal started so I don't think we are definitely bankrupt without it. In the end I would bet that ALPA works out a transition agreement but we'll see. It is also unclear at this point if the XJT pilots will get a vote.

 

[777forever]

For goodness sakes, get on board with ASA, workout an industry leading contract with industry leading scope protection to prevent whipsaw, then lets work on getting Skywest on-board later. We gotta crawl before we can walk.

It will be a sad sad day of "what could have been" if XJT pilots decide to be chest thumpers, kill the deal, and lose their jobs a year or two down the road due to bankruptcy, when they could have still been flying around with an industry leading contract.

 

[wms]

It could be SKWY going the way of OH. I think XJT is better positioned for the future UAL after the merger is complete. Tighter scope is coming. You can bet on it. I know I am. In fact, I'm willing to bet my whole career on it! (Strike to maintain scope). The ceiling on regional growth is getting capped, management at the regional level knows it. Consolidation is the only way to survive. Reference the first post in this thread.

SKYW consulted with UAL before making this offer and they have assurances for the future. JA is not the kind of guy to take a risk and then cross his fingers. XE on the other hand has contracts expiring and an unsure future and has been operating at a loss for some time. They can't continue the way they have been.

I'd rather grow than merge. But it's in XEs best interest to join up with a company that can help turn them around.

 

[Dannone]

You think they should negotiate a scope clause in the new contract like they did in the last one?? Who says that will be honored??

 

[damnflyboy]

SKWY wants this merger. It's like a guy at a car dealer. He says if he doesn't get the deal he wants,he's walking away. the bottom line is he wants the car, he needs the car. I think that is purely management posturing. They want it their way. They have been used to getting their way. The pendulum is swinging towards labor now. I'd say with that letter, you can get what you want. It's the fly in Jerry's ointment.

If the merger falls through, Expressjet will be just fine. The way I see it is, Skywest NEEDS this merger. XJT is positioned very well with a solid operation and jets that conform to the scope clause. Either way, XJT comes out a winner.

Use that leverage to your advantage.

BINGO. Furthermore, all this agreement will probably say is "no transfer of aircraft between carriers." However, there won't be anything preventing stagnation on one side (ASA) and growth on the other side (SKW). There are more ways to whipsaw besides threat of moving around aircraft between carriers. Since the ASA side will now be bigger, how about agreeing to ASA getting 3 planes for every 2 planes SKW is awarded through acquisition or purchase from now on? We are soon to be the bigger airline, after all. That ratio should work fine. INC (skw in disguise) will grow the SkyWest fleet very soon. There will also be upgrades. There will be more larger planes. Just watch.

If this whole thing isn't about an attempt to whipsaw (according to management), then why not streamline and make 3 = 1? Curious.

 

[Medeco]

Lets not forget an important fact or two.

The ASA MEC is telling people off the record that they think XJT pilots are crazy to try to enforce this 3 way. Why? Because the ASA MEC will be out numbered and immediately voted out with the first opportunity.

They are also scared that ALPA would be voted off the property at some point.

So, the OP is from the ASA MEC. Lets see what comes from the XJT MEC.


I agree JA and company are posturing. As if they would show up to this meeting and say "ohh, ok you got us we give"

 

[Whydoitry]

For goodness sakes, get on board with ASA, workout an industry leading contract with industry leading scope protection to prevent whipsaw, then lets work on getting Skywest on-board later. We gotta crawl before we can walk.

It will be a sad sad day of "what could have been" if XJT pilots decide to be chest thumpers, kill the deal, and lose their jobs a year or two down the road due to bankruptcy, when they could have still been flying around with an industry leading contract.

We have industry leading scope protection, that is the issue.

Why should we give that away just to renegotiate it again, just to have it ignored again. What was that definition of learning we had to memorize to get our CFI's? No, forget it, if the XJT pilots are allowed a vote on giving up scope even with "strong protection language", I feel pretty confident that it will fail. We have been witness to management violations of our contract for the past year, and no one trusts them anymore. So I don't think that anyone would trust ASA or SKW management at this point.

Let's not forget that a stand alone XJT will be the largest carrier for the new United-Continental Holding Company.

 

[777forever]

We have industry leading scope protection, that is the issue.

Why should we give that away just to renegotiate it again, just to have it ignored again. What was that definition of learning we had to memorize to get our CFI's? No, forget it, if the XJT pilots are allowed a vote on giving up scope even with "strong protection language", I feel pretty confident that it will fail. We have been witness to management violations of our contract for the past year, and no one trusts them anymore. So I don't think that anyone would trust ASA or SKW management at this point.

Let's not forget that a stand alone XJT will be the largest carrier for the new United-Continental Holding Company.

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

 

[Abernathy]

777forever, wouldn't you think you'd be junior for a lot longer with an integrated XJT/ASA list?

I don't know if that's something you really care about, either way. Just wondering..

I don't see how XJT deciding to either play ball with Jerry or deciding to go it alone could really hurt ASA in the end, whichever way they choose to go. Mostly I would think it would keep the status quo. At worst, with a merger, the junior ASA folks would stay junior FOs for several more years to come.

 

[cybourg10]

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

You are quite cocky for someone without a lot of skins on the wall.

 

[Whydoitry]

If that be the case JA will cancel the transaction with a smile and let XJT fend for themselves with 100 mil cash left. Good luck.

I'm not so sure JA want's to compete against XJT for UAL business. I wouldn't be so quick to think he will just walk away, after all he came back to try the deal again.

 

[JumpersAway]

To be honest, I don't care either way. ASA was fine without XJ a few weeks ago, and they will be fine some more in the future.

Does anyone expect the XJ MEC to hold a membership vote on the subject, or will it be left up to the MEC? What's the next move? Rumor has it JA gave the JX MEC a week to arrive at a decision, otherwise he was going to abandon the deal.

 

[IUSTACHECKEM]

You lost 20 Mil this past qtr (one of the better ones for most airlines)......100 mil cash left........ 5 qtrs left at that consumption rate and at the same time your contracts expire with CA/UA.

Then again you negoiate a larger below cost deal to keep the your flying (as you are now biding below cost to reduce the hemerage) and .......then you dont have cash to continue to hemerage.

Looks like those are the facts other than SKYW has already negoiated your future (aircraft and sounds like a rate above cost).......question is, is it with or without you?

JA will not merge the motherland.

 

[Data]

If I were in an XJT pilot's shoes, I'd really have to wonder how much I was really 'giving up' to become a part of a well run, profitable very large organization. Of course, we don't know yet what you're giving up, but you aren't becoming part of a sh!t airline. It's not all roses (and I'm not suggesting that you should accept any crap deal forced down your throat, ASA has a pretty good contract) but given the shape of the regional industry you have to know that you're either going to die slowly or become a part of either Republic, Pinnacle or SkyWest. What other options are there? Go it alone with a crap load of 50 seaters and very high costs, or get played for some moderate changes but know that you're future, until you move on to a Major, or if you're a lifer, until retirement, will be with a solid, profitable company?

Say what you will about Jerry and company, of course they want this deal, it does many things for them, but don't fool yourselves into thinking you've got them where you want them (the new car analogy was pretty lame). If, for whatever reason, integration of the 3 companes does not happen, and it won't, don't think for a second that they won't walk away from the deal. That 15 year agreement they've ironed out with United going forward, do you really think XJT will just be able to drop into the same deal and continue on? Yeah, good luck with that, the loans that Skywest have with United are 'securing' some of that, you don't have crap for leverage without some $$$$ backing. So without the contract going forward, guess what? You're going to have to compete for that business against Skywest (and others) and you will lose some of that flying. Period. Even if it's 20-30 planes, how many furloughs will that be? You guys have a sh!t load of planes, what of you lose half of the flying in the free-for-all as your contracts expire? What will your quality of life be then? I'm guessing not nearly as good as it will be with this deal.

PS, if I get bumped from my thick-a$$ vessel, I'm gonna be pissed! :laugh:

 

[Beergut]

Word on the street is that JA told the XJT MEC that if they insist on the 3-way integration that he will drop the deal. I also heard that after a few beers in Vegas the XJT guys true colors came out and that they think they're gonna come in and take over. If that's the case then I hope the deal falls through and those guys can fend for themselves. (Obviously this is all hearsay.)