CAL/ UAL Merger

[CX880]

The BEST course of action would be to have every jet with 51 seats or more flown by mainline.... a few regional pilots would be out of work, but thats business and life. Plenty of mainline pilots have been out of work for MANY years because of regionals flying their seats and routes. I hope for a CAL style scope in the merger.... but most likely a cap on the current # of RJ's will be the end result.

Those furloughed mainline are being absorbed by regionals and jets for jobs programs so they're still flying. I would not be surprised if we see 70+ seat UAX RJs flown by regional pilots with furloughed mainline pilots. Kind of like compass.

 

[Jetjockey]

It doesn't matter what CAL's scope is anymore. The new company is now called United and the scope UAL has, will be what will be.

Doesn't quite work that way Kentucky. Re: Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). A new agreement is forthcoming, and I'm sure you will see changes. Get that "heavy" RJ time while you can.

 

[lookin4better]

Doesn't quite work that way Kentucky. Re: Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). A new agreement is forthcoming, and I'm sure you will see changes. Get that "heavy" RJ time while you can.

Love it!

 

[Whydoitry]

Not to throw any cold water on the "CAL scope will prevail" crowd, but how do you see management agreeing to it? It's going to have to make economic sense, and at the very least the new UAL team will point to DAL and say "we need to be competitive with them". Of course we all know that there is more to costs than just rates, so will the new UAL pilot group make concessions to work rules and other benefits to regain the 70 seat flying? If they can put the genie back in the bottle great, I'm just a little skeptical.

 

[rumorhasit]

No more 70 seat contract awards...the current contracts will freeze where they are or....MAYBE...be reduced.


That's a longshot though.



[prays even though he's an atheist]

I believe scope is 50 seat on the jet, that's why xjt stayed with the 50 seaters.

 

[Jetjockey]

Can we put the genie back in the bottle? that would take a lot of horsepower. Can we fence in the genie, keep him on a short leash and make sure he doesn't reproduce??? YES.

Freeze the number of 70 seaters right where they are at. When contracts come up, they are not renewed. No replacements, no more growth. Anything in the future over 50 seats belongs to mainline.

 

[snap145]

so all those pretty new XJT United paint jobs are gonna go right back in the paint shop and get swapped back to CAL Express???

 

[CX880]

Freeze the number of 70 seaters right where they are at. When contracts come up, they are not renewed. No replacements, no more growth. Anything in the future over 50 seats belongs to mainline.

Why would they even think of granting that? ALPA and especially CAL/UAL alpa is the senior pilots union. They will come up with 10-20% pay raises and the pilots will cave.

 

[Jetjockey]

Why would they even think of granting that? ALPA and especially CAL/UAL alpa is the senior pilots union. They will come up with 10-20% pay raises and the pilots will cave.

Do you even work at either company? If so, do you go to union meetings, talk to reps, serve on a committee?

You're wrong. Scope was a huge issue at CAL before the merger. Scope is a huge issue at UAL post-bankruptcy, and you think a small percentage of close retirement age guys are going to make those concerns just go away with a meager 10% raise? Even us mid range guys care about the contined "outsourcing" of our jobs. Even if they offered $1200 per hour, it don't matter one bit if you loose jobs!

Scope in on the radar screen more than you realize.

 

[Flash]

Not to throw any cold water on the "CAL scope will prevail" crowd, but how do you see management agreeing to it? It's going to have to make economic sense, and at the very least the new UAL team will point to DAL and say "we need to be competitive with them". Of course we all know that there is more to costs than just rates, so will the new UAL pilot group make concessions to work rules and other benefits to regain the 70 seat flying? If they can put the genie back in the bottle great, I'm just a little skeptical.

I would tend to side with the policies of the airline that has been more profitable in the last ten years over the one that can't seem to make money in any environment.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Do you even work at either company? If so, do you go to union meetings, talk to reps, serve on a committee?

You're wrong. Scope was a huge issue at CAL before the merger. Scope is a huge issue at UAL post-bankruptcy, and you think a small percentage of close retirement age guys are going to make those concerns just go away with a meager 10% raise? Even us mid range guys care about the contined "outsourcing" of our jobs. Even if they offered $1200 per hour, it don't matter one bit if you loose jobs!

Scope in on the radar screen more than you realize.

CX880 works for GoJet.

 

[Snaab]

I would tend to side with the policies of the airline that has been more profitable in the last ten years over the one that can't seem to make money in any environment.

I like your thinking! I hope CAL-type scope remains.

 

[rumorhasit]

Haha, you think but we are talking about airlines here!!!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

CX880 works for GoJet.

uke:

 

[CX880]

CX880 works for GoJet.

Let me guess... Skywest? ASA? Bribing majors, undercutting pilots, including each other LOL, with non union cheap labor, your company has done way more to contribute to the death spiral of the profession more than GJ has. GJ does better and gets paid more than TSA anyways. If we only had a billion dollars like you guys maybe we can operate as cheaply as you, buy up airlines and pay our pilots the same as gojets. Hhahahahahaha

 

[CX880]

Do you even work at either company? If so, do you go to union meetings, talk to reps, serve on a committee?

You're wrong. Scope was a huge issue at CAL before the merger. Scope is a huge issue at UAL post-bankruptcy, and you think a small percentage of close retirement age guys are going to make those concerns just go away with a meager 10% raise? Even us mid range guys care about the contined "outsourcing" of our jobs. Even if they offered $1200 per hour, it don't matter one bit if you loose jobs!

Scope in on the radar screen more than you realize.

Are you suggesting that your pilot group will turn down "1200 per hour" for scope? Very unlikely. Your position is on job protection. All the company has to do then is to set up a job for furlough clause with a regional airline in exchange for 70-100 seat flying. Let's hope I'm wrong though....

 

[AF01]

To those who think it will be years before all the furloughs are back like aa/twa...

i don t think so..

UA's work rules are better than CAL's and required more staffing. If the new UA gets old UA's work rules, even without improvement in a joint contract, that would require a lot of recalls.
(unlikely they wouldn't have some improvement requiring even more recalls)

in addition to that, some over 60 CAL guys might bail out fearing the lump sum option for the A fund will go away.
Older pilots on bith sides who could retire not wanting to go through the whole merger, new company, new procedure... that might make some pull the plug and leave.

also in the next couple of years, guys will finally turn 65 and will HAVE TO retire and hopefully a economic recovery,

All in all i don t think the picture is as bad a some make it out to be on the recall/hiring front

 

[CaribPilot]

Let me guess... Skywest? ASA? Blah Blah Blah.....cheap labor, Blah Blah Blah....I wanna kill myself.....Blah Blah Blah...I hate my job at Gojets....blah blah blah....what the deuce...blah blah blah....OMG ASA & Skywest are so cool.....blah blah blah. Hhahahahahaha

Seek help dude...seek help.

 

[IAHERJ]

Continental is about to have to finally recall the furloughed pilots that it has put off for too long. Once they are all back this year, new pilots are going to be needed on the CAL side just to keep the planes flying. With retirements starting to pick up(we had several last week totally unannounced) due to merger related fears along with some early out incentives I'm told are coming; UAL furloughed pilots will be coming on line to fly CAL planes until the joint SLI is done and the airlines are operating on a single certificate and the 1st "flush" bid is completed. By this time, there will be enough positions on the combined list for even more recalls on the UAL side and I'm pretty confident that by 2014, all furloughed UAL pilots who want to come to work will be flying aircraft for the new United and we will be hiring off the street.

I'm also guessing that a lot of the new " off the street" pilots will be from the carriers whose contracts to fly 70+ seat jets are expiring. I'm fairly confident that the new joint contract will have a freeze on all 50+ seat jet flying and a new aircraft order for 85-120 seat jets that will be flown by mainline pilots. With the impressive number of age 65 related retirements starting in 2014, along with 787's and more 737-800/900's and the new small capacity aircraft order; you are going to see a lot of hiring at UAL from 2015-2020. Good for the guy starting college right now. Not so good for the guy who has been in the left seat of a RJ for 7 years now and waiting to get into the right seat of something with 100 seats or more and a retirement plan etc.

 

[SkyNation]

Freeze the number of 70 seaters right where they are at. When contracts come up, they are not renewed. No replacements, no more growth. Anything in the future over 50 seats belongs to mainline.

take this to Vegas. Bet $1 on it happening. If it ever does, your payout will surely make you the richest dude in the world.