CNBC reports US Air / United in merger talks

[eaglesview]

Where do you guys get "UAL pilots think they get DOH"??

I don't know ANY UAL pilots (other than a couple blowhards on this forum) that think DOH is fair, equitable or desirable.

If you think that the majority of UAL pilots would be in lockstep with the Easties, you've been smoking crack.

And you think they, (we) are in favor of putting younger pilots senior to us because of their relative seniority?? Sorry I, and anyone that is thinking, will take the old guys as the senior folks. If you think that is becaus we would be "lockstep with the east" you would have to think again.

 

[flyguppy]

And you think they, (we) are in favor of putting younger pilots senior to us because of their relative seniority?? Sorry I, and anyone that is thinking, will take the old guys as the senior folks. If you think that is becaus we would be "lockstep with the east" you would have to think again.

Unless ALPA is removed from this property (highly unlikely in my opinion), the ALPA merger policy would be most influential.

DOH is not mentioned.

Your opinion and mine are moot unless the union or the policy changes.

 

[satpak77]

my question is who initiated this and is this a pure merger is Company-1 buying out Company-2 ?

 

[eaglesview]

Unless ALPA is removed from this property (highly unlikely in my opinion), the ALPA merger policy would be most influential.

DOH is not mentioned.

Your opinion and mine are moot unless the union or the policy changes.

You are correct DOH is not mentioned, longevity is.

 

[FDJ2]

If you read the Nic award, it says it will be the seniority list when a joint contract between US Airways and America West is implemented. If there is a merger with United, there will never be a joint contract between the East and West, thus there will never be a Nic list. The only way it could happen is if first the East and West get a joint contract, and then work on yet another joint contract with United... Not gonna happen that way if this merger turns out to be true...

There would never be a court that would have "throw it out", as it would never exist. The Wake ruling only states that the Nic WILL be used in a joint contract between the East and West. Period. Again, a merger with United would never trigger that...

Actually, the Nicolau award is the integrated LCC seniority list and it's BINDING. There is no other. You are discussing a contractual issue, not a seniority list issue. The contractual issues come and go, but the list survives. If LCC merges with another carrier the only seniority list that can be presented is the Nicolau list. Read the "Award".

"A. The integrated USAirways pilot list shall be the list attached to this award as exhibit A."

The Nicolau award is a fait a compli, a done deal, binding on all involved, no way to get rid of it and of course USAPA must defend it.

However, if there is a dispute over the meaning or interpretation of the award, Nicolau retains jurisdiction and will hear arguments then render his decision.

 

[satpak77]

Actually, the Nicolau award is the integrated LCC seniority list and it's BINDING. There is no other. You are discussing a contractual issue, not a seniority list issue. The contractual issues come and go, but the list survives. If LCC merges with another carrier the only seniority list that can be presented is the Nicolau list. Read the "Award".

"A. The integrated USAirways pilot list shall be the list attached to this award as exhibit A."

The Nicolau award is a fait a compli, a done deal, binding on all involved, no way to get rid of it and of course USAPA must defend it.

However, if there is a dispute over the meaning or interpretation of the award, Nicolau retains jurisdiction and will hear arguments then render his decision.

If the new legal company, post-merger, is "United Airlines Group" or just "United Inc" with the name US Airways and all variances and leftovers of US Airways identity erased, does this award still legally bind the parties? Just curious. Can it be declared "in-valid" post-merger?

I read the award it is says "US Airways" all over it but no apparent provision for future mergers or takeovers.

"You are now a United employee" etc etc

???

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

At the risk of steering away from the SLI food flight and sounding like a A.netter:

What does LCC bring to UAL?

UAL already has a relatively decent domestic hub structure...ORD, DEN, SFO, IAD. Great Pacific network. Passable European presence. Only of of those hubs has meaningful LCC competition.

East side LCC brings a reasonable O&D hub in PHL and good N/S connecting hub in CLT (something UAL has always lacked), both reasonably free of competition. Good Caribbean ops and a good number of European destinations, as well as a relatively strong east coast presence which UAL has always wanted.

West side? PHX, a traditionally low yield market. LAS, ditto... But assuming they're cutting LAS loose, PHX would probably remain, as a SW connecting point and hope the O&D in PHX recovers with the economy.

This hook up would provide hubs in 5 of the top 15 metro areas, including 2 in the top 5.

OTOH, a UAL-CAL hook up would give you hubs in the in 6 of the top 15 cities, including 3 in the top 6. Europe would be strengthened, and PAC would be in great shape with the addition of CAL Micro.

For a truly fearsome competitor, you could look at a UAL-AMR hook up. They would be #1 or 2 in the Pacific and Europe, and own SA, and would have hubs in 8 of the top 15 metro areas, including all of the top 5.

By comparison, the new DAL only has 3 strong hubs in the top 15. NYC (kinda sorta...in progress). ATL is number 9, Detroit is 11. Seattle, which isn't really a DAL hub, is 15. Hard to tell if LAX is a hub or just a focus city with the Alaska thing going on, FWIW, MSP is number 16, CVG is 24, MEM is 41 and SLC is 48.

Nu

 

[satpak77]

Heyas,

What does LCC bring to UAL?

Nu

I thinks its more a question of Doug and Glenn saying "together, we can own the world" (and fight off LUV, CAL, DAL)

Think of Crips and Bloods and a bunch of other LA gangs, all fighting over turf. Now the Bloods and Crips merge and create a supergang to fight the other gangs

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sh...limb-on-merger-talk-2010-04-08?dist=afterbell

"The problem is not US Airways needs to do a merger," said US Airways Chief Executive Doug Parker, during a post-earnings call in January. "To the contrary, as we just showed with these [fourth-quarter] results, we're doing as well as anybody. The problem is the industry is doing poorly, and the industry does poorly because there's too much fragmentation, and reducing that will create some real value."
United and US Airways represent the country's fourth- and fifth-largest carriers in terms of mainline capacity. Combined they would become the largest, surpassing Delta.

 

[FDJ2]

If the new legal company, post-merger, is "United Airlines", with the name US Airways and all variances and leftovers of US Airways identity erased, does this award still legally bind the parties? Just curious. Can it be declared "in-valid" post-merger?

I read the award it is says "US Airways" all over it but no apparent provision for future mergers or takeovers.

"You are now a United employee" etc etc

???

If US Airways changed its name to USair, would the list still be binding?

Of course.

The best way to think of it is that the award is binding on the pilots. Changing agents or corporate transactions will not change that reality. Whoever represents the pilots, in whichever corporation those pilots are employed, will be obliged utilize that list, even when constructing a new integrated list with another pilot group.

 

[satpak77]

If US Airways changed its name to USair, would the list still be binding?

Of course.

The best way to think of it is that the award is binding on the pilots. Changing agents or corporate transactions will not change that reality. Whoever represents the pilots, in whichever corporation those pilots are employed, will be obliged utilize that list, even when constructing a new integrated list with another pilot group.

OK roger that, I was just curious

 

[NuGuy]

If US Airways changed its name to USair, would the list still be binding?

Of course.

The best way to think of it is that the award is binding on the pilots. Changing agents or corporate transactions will not change that reality. Whoever represents the pilots, in whichever corporation those pilots are employed, will be obliged utilize that list, even when constructing a new integrated list with another pilot group.

Of course, there's nothing that says that the two groups can't just say "fine, we'll accept the Nic, BUT, the new list will be based on DOH, so it doesn't matter". After all, a list is what you say it is, and the company could care less.

Given the relative DOH of the USAPA guys and the UAL guys, this very well could be an avenue they take.

Nu

 

[satpak77]

CNBC about to report on merger after commercials.....2 mins.....

 

[Deadalus]

Brilliant minds think allike!

You can't even spell Phoenix you dumb moron.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Unless ALPA is removed from this property (highly unlikely in my opinion), the ALPA merger policy would be most influential.

DOH is not mentioned.

Your opinion and mine are moot unless the union or the policy changes.

WRONG!!!!!!!

ALPA Merger policy would have NOTHING to do with it. McCaskill/Bond would govern, as both companies have 'different unions'!!!!! ALPA merger policy only prevails 'IF' Both carriers (companies) are represented by ALPA, GOT IT!!!

McCaskill/Bond is 'new' and has never been 'tested' calls for both parties to get together and try to come to agreement, then provides for mediation/arbitration with the 'guidelines' of Allegheny/Mohawh LPP. And, since it has Never been 'tested' no one knows for sure how it will play out. But, even though Allegheny/Mohawk LPP does not mention 'DOH' an arguement can be made that pretty much ALL 'past mergers' that were conducted on A/M LPPs were done by DOH.

Side note; IF SWA had bought/merged with Frontier, McCaskill/Bond would have 'governed' and that is why SWA did not want a deal 'unless' there was a prior deal on seniority, as they did not want to test 'McCaskil/Bond'

I seriously doubt if this deal will ever happen, but it Definitely will NOT happen unless the 'pilots' (ALL groups) are onboard, e.g. (Delta/NWA), as that deal almost fell apart because at first there was not a deal with the pilot groups.

For what it worth.

PD

 

[Deadalus]

Where do you guys get "UAL pilots think they get DOH"??

I don't know ANY UAL pilots (other than a couple blowhards on this forum) that think DOH is fair, equitable or desirable.

If you think that the majority of UAL pilots would be in lockstep with the Easties, you've been smoking crack.

It's the crack. Every single United pilot I know hates easties and thinks ucrapa is a joke

 

[johnsonrod]

How would USAirways/UAL get past the DCA-IAD overlap from an anti-trust point of view?

 

[B6Busdriver]

How would USAirways/UAL get past the DCA-IAD overlap from an anti-trust point of view?

They should spin off some slots at DCA and create a new airline called "DC Air".

 

[reepicheep]

Ual pilots will burn down the house unless they get a contract with significant pay increases (DAL rates?) and pre-negotiated seniority. Tilton can press ahead without their support at his own risk and watch the "Summer of 2000" play out again and no one, not CAL or Airways, will want to conclude a deal in the resultant turmoil. Airways pilots will probably turn against the deal anyway because UAL Captains aren't going to give their seats to the Angry FO Club any more than Nic. though the AWA pilots should have. In the end every one except Parker and Tilton will hate this deal and it will die a quick death and send UAL into the arms of CAL.

 

[Skippy]

 

[FNG320]

Throw out the nic, ALPA would probably be back ,though I would not vote for them. Their new policy uses longevity/DOH press on with life.

Actually longevity (current relative seniority) and DOH are just two areas to include in any SLI. They are not to be the only one, or the final deciding factor. Just one of many. This change would most likely not have made major changes in the USAir/AWA SLI / Nicoli Award.

Just my opinion......

FNG