CNBC reports US Air / United in merger talks

[FDJ2]

No one is going to reorder a seniority list, least of all an arbitrator. The Nic list would be used and integrated with the UAL list. Personally, I think USAPA isn't up to the task at hand and would have its clock cleaned by the UAL pilots.

 

[eaglesview]

It's the crack. Every single United pilot I know hates easties and thinks ucrapa is a joke

You might absolutly be 100% correct. Now go back to all of your UAL friends and ask them if they hate USAPA so much they wouldn't mind being put behind younger AWA pilots on a SLI that have half the longevity.
I continue to show that list to UAL guys and all of them are floored when they see it. Reality will come into play. WE, UAL, are simply better off with DOH period. I gaurantee you UAL friends will not back AWA all the way to the bank ie give up their seniority. Keep it real, with the very senior, read old, east guys we will have much less heartburn with DOH wether we hate USAPA or not.

 

[knightflyer]

No one is going to reorder a seniority list, least of all an arbitrator. The Nic list would be used and integrated with the UAL list. Personally, I think USAPA isn't up to the task at hand and would have its clock cleaned by the UAL pilots.

It Wouldn't be a bad thing.....Normalcy.:nuts:

 

[becket]

How would USAirways/UAL get past the DCA-IAD overlap from an anti-trust point of view?

Republic has expressed an interest in the East Bases. I imagine they could be sold assets to clear the Eastern Anti-trust problem.

 

[FDJ2]

Of course, there's nothing that says that the two groups can't just say "fine, we'll accept the Nic, BUT, the new list will be based on DOH, so it doesn't matter". After all, a list is what you say it is, and the company could care less.

Given the relative DOH of the USAPA guys and the UAL guys, this very well could be an avenue they take.

Nu

Yeah right! :laugh:

 

[FDJ2]

Keep it real, with the very senior, read old, east guys we will have much less heartburn with DOH wether we hate USAPA or not.

Keep it real, UAL brings 78 B747/B777s to the merger, LCC 0, UAL brings 132 767/757, LCC 50 330s/767-200/757s. That's 210 large gauge aircraft to 50. DOH is DOA, of course the easties heard that before.

Category/status, the sooner it's embraced the sooner an amicable list can be achieved, which is in the best interests of all.

 

[eaglesview]

Keep it real, UAL brings 78 B747/B777s to the merger, LCC 0, UAL brings 132 767/757, LCC 50 330s/767-200/757s. That's 210 large gauge aircraft to 50. DOH is DOA, of course the easties heard that before.

Category/status, the sooner it's embraced the sooner an amicable list can be achieved, which is in the best interests of all.

I am certainly not argueing we bring a very lopsided advantage in widebodies to the merger, I am simply stating that DOH makes more sence. A fence is a very simple way of dealing with the widebody issue. Had AWA guys agreed to this they could have had their flying protected and had that precious contract they keep talking about. Unfortunatley they wanted more than what they brought.

If I insert my relative seniority into the USAir nic award I go into the list at a point where I am junior to AWA guys with 6 years less longevity who are for the most part younger than me. NO thanks. At the same time I go into the list amongst USAir east guys who have been at the airline 6 years longer than I have who are ALL older than me. I am sorry this, like the nic, makes no sence.

The only reason someone would not want a DOH list with a fence is if they want more than they bring to the merger.

 

[becket]

I gaurantee you UAL friends will not back AWA all the way to the bank ie give up their seniority. .

Who's AWA?

 

[FDJ2]

I am certainly not argueing we bring a very lopsided advantage in widebodies to the merger, I am simply stating that DOH makes more sence. A fence is a very simple way of dealing with the widebody issue. Had AWA guys agreed to this they could have had their flying protected and had that precious contract they keep talking about. Unfortunatley they wanted more than what they brought.

If I insert my relative seniority into the USAir nic award I go into the list at a point where I am junior to AWA guys with 6 years less longevity who are for the most part younger than me. NO thanks. At the same time I go into the list amongst USAir east guys who have been at the airline 6 years longer than I have who are ALL older than me. I am sorry this, like the nic, makes no sence.

The only reason someone would not want a DOH list with a fence is if they want more than they bring to the merger.

The problem with fences, particularly long fences which would be required in this instance with a DOH list, is that you create two pilot groups within one list. Two pilot groups constantly squabbling over where the fence should be, suspicious of each others motives, IOW a divided group. It sounds neat and tidy in theorey, but history (Roberts) shows that it is not.

Category/Status is not a relative seniority list. Using something similar to the NIC award or the DAL/NWA award, UAL/LCC would be integrated approximately 4:1 through widebodied captains, and again approximately 4:1 through widebodied F/Os, there would also be some adjustments for longevity and career expectations, but the end result would not be relative seniority. Fences would be low, and the sooner both premerger groups realize that they are all in the same canoe (no, or very limited fences), the sooner they can start paddling in the same direction.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

DOH is the best way to merge a list. I have been through three mergers and DOH was always the quickest way to end the fighting. Any other type of merger just prolongs unnecessary infighting. Someday I hope we get a National seniority list to prevent the whipsawing between startups and mainline.

 

[ATRCA]

Tell us how you really feel........

http://www.glgroup.com/News/United-Airlines--US-Airways-Merger---Funny-Stuff-47661.html

 

[thor2j]

DOH is the worst way to merge. What if you have a newer company that's doing well and a large old company that is struggling to stay alive. DO you think it makes any sense to use DOH, now guys who are senior captains are now reserve FO's. Relative seniority is the only way to cause the least amount of damage.

 

[johnsonrod]

There's a simple and equitable way to integrate the two pilot groups at UAL and USAirways: binding arbitration.

I am sure the USAirways pilots will be fully supportive.

 

[Old School 737]

DOH is the best way to merge a list. I have been through three mergers and DOH was always the quickest way to end the fighting. Any other type of merger just prolongs unnecessary infighting. Someday I hope we get a National seniority list to prevent the whipsawing between startups and mainline.

The prob with a national seniority list is when does it start? When you are a commercial pilot hauling boxes or with a commuter job or is it just the big boys that will be included. What a mess.

 

[Dizel8]

I have to agree with Thor, DOH makes little sense.

If one applied pure DOH to the AAA/AWA deal, then as far as I can tell, considering AWA started in 1984, just about all the west pilots would have been stapled to the bottom.

Would that be fair, I don't personally think so!

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Republic has expressed an interest in the East Bases. I imagine they could be sold assets to clear the Eastern Anti-trust problem.

What about this idea....

UAL and LCC are going to have some... but less anti-trust issues as their relitive sizes are smaller then in previous merger talks as seen in the past circa 90's '05 and '08. Post merger there will be a need to shed some routes and overlapping structures....i.e. (job losses)

Insert the current Republic situation with both DAL, UAL and USair all still funding Republic as a direct competitor...ala Frontier. Hypotheticly speaking, a combined USair and UAL could seek to be excused from the Republic contracts on there E series platform in a swap of assets, such as slots, and other infastructure in the overlapping cities, and would also mitigate any anti-trust issues.... Frontier would grow, aquire assets and routes, giving the little boost to anti-trust needed to get this through....

The new Marriage of LCC and UAL would also "right size" their regional fleets in he same step... and would force Republic into competion with their previous code-share partners....

This would be interesting to watch... a lean and mean UAL/LCC Combo, in direct competition to Republic in a very competive East Coast Market....

Just a thought.....


V1

 

[ASADFW7]

who gives a ******************** about republic anyway?

 

[V1cutsrfun]

who gives a ******************** about republic anyway?

I certianly don't... I am only saying this might be a way to retrieve ones "own" flying while possibly eleminating a boil in the same step.....


V1

 

[viper548]

The prob with a national seniority list is when does it start? When you are a commercial pilot hauling boxes or with a commuter job or is it just the big boys that will be included. What a mess.

The day you get your Commercial Multi rating.

 

[climbhappy]

would that be fair?

if one really agreed to abide by the norms seniority requires, then there should be a national list going back to Ok City records, and you'd have to just accept it.. even if you were the acquirer...since when has anything been fair in life?