CastofThousands

[barnyard]

I hope you didn't equate my silence with "not coming out to play". I was in Europe and was a little to busy to enjoy myself on this forum.

The difference between "cutting waste" and being tied to a union contract is huge. Don't go mixing and matching the two, it's apples and oranges.

...After ripping a guy for a third grade spelling mistake...

 

[NJAowner]

NJA strategy

But just because the economy improves, it does not mean you will automatically go back to where you were. Beware of those who are making better mousetraps - and I would not count on all who left to return when they return to private aviation. Sitting on one's laurels is not a good marketing strategy. The market and the competition has changed. Henry Ford used to say you can have any color car you want as long as it is black. That has been NJA's marketing strategy. It worked well for many years for Ford, but did not work forever.

To paraphrase Bill Parcells, just because you hike the whole mountain and make it to the Super Bowl (and win or lose), you start the next season at the bottom of the mountain again. You do not start where you left off.

 

[B19 Flyer]

...After ripping a guy for a third grade spelling mistake...

There is a difference between leaving an "o" off a word because I'm still jet lagged and using a complete word twice with a different meaning. I'll admit to my error, I was wrong. I still would prefer he not program an FMS with me in the back.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 took Micro Economics class in college. He should have taken Macro Economics.

Took both, they were both incredibly easy courses. What's your point?

 

[B19 Flyer]

I bet you were enjoying yourself in Europe. Where did you go? France?

Multiple stops, all business, and yes... I enjoy what I do for a living. You win the bet.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Its time for you to get smart B19.

A contract gives the company a "Fixed Cost". Meaning the company knows exactly what their employee pay is gonna be for any given period of time. They Ok'd the contract and they approved it.

It is also their job to quit spending money like drunken sailors. (this is something that we as a pilot group have no control over).

Looks like the ball is on the company's side of the court to me.

And how do you equate "fixed cost" as being good for an industry where revenue can swing from month to month to the extremes that it does?

Recent turmoil for unionized NJ proves that fixed labor cost can be disaster for any air carrier being unable to quickly adjust labor cost to the market. Non-union carriers could adjust and keep chugging along because they are able to adjust to the market quickly.

It doesn't take much to understand that if revenue drops, the single largest expense needs to drop with it. (Labor).

 

[brokeflyer]

yeah, but then i cant get mine.

 

[rajflyboy]

And how do you equate "fixed cost" as being good for an industry where revenue can swing from month to month to the extremes that it does?

Recent turmoil for unionized NJ proves that fixed labor cost can be disaster for any air carrier being unable to quickly adjust labor cost to the market. Non-union carriers could adjust and keep chugging along because they are able to adjust to the market quickly.

It doesn't take much to understand that if revenue drops, the single largest expense needs to drop with it. (Labor).

So...

Let me get this straight. You are in management with one of the fractionals? Is this true?

Assuming you are in management and you do not understand why fixed costs can be a good thing? I seriously think you need to go to the library and pick up some books about accounting and forecasting.

 

[B19 Flyer]

So...

Let me get this straight. You are in management with one of the fractionals? Is this true?

Assuming you are in management and you do not understand why fixed costs can be a good thing? I seriously think you need to go to the library and pick up some books about accounting and forecasting.

I am management at an air carrier, but I am not managment in a fractional.

Fixed cost is a good thing when revenue holds steady.

In aviation however, revenue does not hold steady. The industry cycles wildly and always has.

Labor is the single most expensive budget item for an air carrier. When the cost is fixed by a contract, the ability to adjust that cost to meet the changing revenue flows of a business places the business at risk. Unions DO NOT CARE about the overall financial health of the company and do not assist in adjusting the labor cost to match the economy or cycle of current revenue.

This inability to adjust to the marketplace using the fixed cost of a union contract cripples the air carrier to remain competitive. This is why the non-union fracs have kept chugging along, while the union fractional can't adjust quickly enough to the market place and is currently slashing costs and pilots. They are unable to tweak the company due to the restraints of the contract.

Union contracts are always built at the high end of the financial spectrum to squeeze the golden goose until near death. This type of fixed cost leaves little to no room for the company to adjust the business model for a substanitive downswing in the business model.

 

[rajflyboy]

I am management at an air carrier, but I am not managment in a fractional.

Fixed cost is a good thing when revenue holds steady.

In aviation however, revenue does not hold steady. The industry cycles wildly and always has.

Labor is the single most expensive budget item for an air carrier. When the cost is fixed by a contract, the ability to adjust that cost to meet the changing revenue flows of a business places the business at risk. Unions DO NOT CARE about the overall financial health of the company and do not assist in adjusting the labor cost to match the economy or cycle of current revenue.

This inability to adjust to the marketplace using the fixed cost of a union contract cripples the air carrier to remain competitive. This is why the non-union fracs have kept chugging along, while the union fractional can't adjust quickly enough to the market place and is currently slashing costs and pilots. They are unable to tweak the company due to the restraints of the contract.

Union contracts are always built at the high end of the financial spectrum to squeeze the golden goose until near death. This type of fixed cost leaves little to no room for the company to adjust the business model for a substanitive downswing in the business model.

So basically you are saying that its all the Unions fault for a company that is losing money. I guess managment has no blame in the matter at all then?

You need to stick it up your ass. You are dumber than I had originally thought.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You clearly are a follower.

So basically you are saying that its all the Unions fault for a company that is losing money. I guess managment has no blame in the matter at all then?

You need to stick it up your ass. You are dumber than I had originally thought.

No, what I'm saying is to be careful what you ask for when you place a union in a company. You may very well be increasing costs within the company to a point where your own job and that of your coworkers can be jeapordized due to the fixed high labor cost and the reluctance of unions to react when the going gets tough. As unions affect the highest cost item in the company, labor, the employee cost is what gets adjusted first.

Running an air carrier is difficult, even during the good times. When the high cost of a union comes in and handcuffs the business.. all bets are off at that point and the results are usually identical to what is happening at NJ today. Massive financial losses and furloughs. No other fractional has taken it on the chin as they have. The non-union fracs just keep chugging along because they were able to tweak the business model continually.

And if YOU can't see that, it's clear you need a union to speak for you and can't think for yourself. There are some people that are born leaders and others that must follow. You clearly are a follower.

 

[brokeflyer]

only you can change it.

so what your saying is the pilots are to take it up the ass when management cant manage?

no wonder you get a union.

 

[Jack Campbell]

True dat, BF. The only companies that have a union are the ones that deserve it. If management would only treat their workforce fairly, there would be no catalyst for organizing. After working for many non-union companies and one union company, I felt much better in the union. Management is always an organized unit when it comes to employee relations. It only makes sense for pilots to have a unified voice also. The challenge for the unions is to operate in such a way that they reasonably protect employees from management without incurring necessary costs to the company. I was fortunate to work in an atmosphere in which those principles applied.

 

[gunfyter]

19,

How much PROFIT did your non-union carrier report for last year?

 

[rajflyboy]

No, what I'm saying is to be careful what you ask for when you place a union in a company. You may very well be increasing costs within the company to a point where your own job and that of your coworkers can be jeapordized due to the fixed high labor cost and the reluctance of unions to react when the going gets tough. As unions affect the highest cost item in the company, labor, the employee cost is what gets adjusted first.

Running an air carrier is difficult, even during the good times. When the high cost of a union comes in and handcuffs the business.. all bets are off at that point and the results are usually identical to what is happening at NJ today. Massive financial losses and furloughs. No other fractional has taken it on the chin as they have. The non-union fracs just keep chugging along because they were able to tweak the business model continually.

And if YOU can't see that, it's clear you need a union to speak for you and can't think for yourself. There are some people that are born leaders and others that must follow. You clearly are a follower.

I can see that you did not pass debate class in school.

You leave out the management responsibility part of the equation all together. Management has to also agree to a union contract. They sign off on it just as the pilot union does.

Also, are you telling me that other types of business aren't affected by the economy?

If I had to guess I'd say you are exactly the type of micro managment person to ruin a perfectly good company.